VSIDO systemd and upstart discussion

[VastOne]

Thanks RatMan....

Alpha ISO is uploading now and as soon as it is done I will give the link

[VastOne]

Here is the Alpha ISO

v-ger demands testing and reporting

[jedi]

I will be installing in a few minutes.  I'd trust RedHat waaaaaaaay more than Canonical...

Canonical has lobotomized Linux...

[VastOne]

There is an issue that will cause a delay on the boot...

For whatever reason, fstab is setup with a swap partition even though there is not one on the install

To correct the delay, simply edit /etc/fstab and comment out

Code Select Expand

/dev/ none swap sw 0 0

and the boot time will be nearly instantaneous

I will find the way to resolve this

[statmonkey]

Downloading now and will test and let you know.  Trust

• v-ger
• Any other forum member
• My Ex-wife
• Fedora/Redhat
• Nick Leeson
• Lennart
• Canonical
• Apple
• The Kardashians
• Micro-anything

[VastOne]

bwhahahahahaha

That sir is epic!   

Thank you!

[jedi]

Installed to metal (Asus G55VW Laptop).  Runs great of course.  Another fine piece of work VastOne.  There is a very, very, very, noticeable difference in boot speeds.  Also, shutdown takes like 1 1/2 seconds or so...
No difference with nvidia yet.  Still using more memory with the nvidia driver installed.
I'd say systemd on VSIDO is a 100% success!

[Digit]

woosh.  lively thread this.  i'll try to throw out a concise punchy responce, rich in brevity, albeit short on finer grained nuance.

from statmonkey's posts, i am again finding myself feeling firmly in the "fuck systemd" camp.  tis the lesser of two evils, but that's not how i vote.

good to see it being put to the test... however... i dont feel inclined to test it.  i install A LOT of software on my main production machines... and that of course increases chances of encountering the afore mentioned characteristic woes.  woes that ootb vsido is unlikely to encounter, having so few packages installed.  so a test for me, would be in production, and i'd just feel silly installing several gig (even tens of gb) of software on a purely test install, just to see how many of these bugs i encounter, having already had a loose grasp of the nature of the situation causing them.

i'd rather have the relatively harmless shortcomings of sysvinit, than the borkings and constrictions and obfuscations and the (probable?/inevitable?) development path constrainings of systemd. 

... but as statmonkey said... if a tree were to fall...
in such a case, it'd be good to have already had eyes open long enough to have informed the reflexes where to move to. 

trust...
even though i have forsaken rpm based long ago, i do feel more trust for redhat than canonical.  not sure who i trust more out of canonical and novel.  canonical smack too much of the car salesman desperate to convince you of its self-presentation... having been a psy-warrior on the side of the "advertising and marketing" and gained the insider insights, that now instantly earns distrust from me.

(this could make an excellent thread in itself, but i'll throw it in here for now too anyways)
i trust, in this order:
1: source based distros that have a council/committee who do all their deliberations transparently, and let the user decide
2: source/binary distros that may have a sole lead dev, but have all their software be as vanilla as possible / as upstream intended/released
3: community developed binary based distros
4: individual developed spin-off distros
5: government backed / public-body institution oriented distros
6: other
7: big gap...
distrust...
8: corporate backed distros
9: proprietary operating systems
10: spy agencies & other secretive agencies of government
11: corporate espionage groups & associated psy-op "news" and other corporatocracy controlled media
12: secret societies
13: old white alpha-males in the 13 ruling families

[statmonkey]

Digit - you actually are exactly the one who should be testing this.  I say that not as an illuminati member nor as a patriarch of the Bush Family, not even as a former NBC correspondent and employee of the NSA but as an aging white alpha male.    Seriously, I understand it being a pain in the ass but someone who uses a lot of software is probably going to see different things than those of us who run somewhat minimal setups.  I enjoyed your list and your reasoning.  I guess I am the punchline of a Woody Allen joke. 

"I would not want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member."

Did just go through a quick install, it was quick and performed well.  My boot times and shutdown times (yes I did the fstab change) are not stupendous but it's an old Acer Aspire One and don't expect much.  Nothing exciting happened it just performed like a trusty Vsido install.  I do wonder one thing. Why is Xterm the go to terminal?  I mean roxterm and terminator have more features I don't mean to complain but I just don't get what xfce terminal brings to the table.  Sorry, wrong thread.

I will beat the hell out of this for the next few days.  I don't like being in a box and would like to avoid either of these solutions but further reading is convincing me that something is going to happen on this.  I really think that if they go _upstart it will be the end of Debian as we know it.  But, I also think that from what I have read it is pretty clear that if they go systemd working around it will be highly difficult given the way it handles events and groups.  Jedi posted an excellent thread/Position paper that explains this the best I have seen.

Agree great thread, the type of discussion and input that is available no where else that I have come to appreciate here.  I even will go far as to say that while lacking the depth and breadth of subjects that CB has the dialog is more thought provoking.  Kudo's to all.

Oh and zbreaker er .. z-ger?.  We know very little, post your thoughts my guess is you probably have as much or more knowledge than myself for sure.

[hakerdefo]

If I have to pick only one guy from the linux world as the most sensible, I will pick Patrick Volkerding. And this is what he has to say about systemd,

Concerning systemd, I do like the idea of a faster boot time (obviously), but I also like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable, and I'm guessing that's what most Slackware users prefer too. I don't spend all day rebooting my machine, and having looked at systemd config files it seems to me a very foreign way of controlling a system to me, and attempting to control services, sockets, devices, mounts, etc., all within one daemon flies in the face of the UNIX concept of doing one thing and doing it well. To the typical end user, if this results in a faster boot then mission accomplished. With udev being phased out in favor of systemd performing those tasks we'll have to make the decision at some point between whether we want to try to maintain udev ourselves, have systemd replace just udev's functions, or if we want the whole kit and caboodle.

If you have any doubts regarding Patrik's ability this is what he said regarding gnome way back in 2005 when he dropped gnome from slackware,

There is also Dropline, of course, which is quite popular. However, due to their policy of adding PAM and replacing large system packages (like the entire X11 system) with their own versions, I can't give quite the same sort of nod to Dropline.
Please do not incorrectly interpret any of this as a slight against GNOME itself, which (although it does usually need to be fixed and polished beyond the way it ships from upstream more so than, say, KDE or XFce) is a decent desktop choice. So are a lot of others, but Slackware does not need to ship every choice. GNOME is and always has been a moving target (even the "stable" releases usually aren't quite ready yet) that really does demand a team to keep up on all the changes (many of which are not always well documented).

Cheers.

[PackRat]

Here is the Alpha ISO

v-ger demands testing and reporting

Of course you would put this up 15 minutes AFTER I installed siduction.

Installed with swap on HP2000 laptop; happily dual-booting with Windows 7. Well done vastone.

@hackerdefo - thanks for the quote from Patrick V. - I may stand corrected, I thought Slackware had a press release where they would move to systemd with the next full version.

[VastOne]

Thanks for that hakerdefo. Unlike gnome back then that had choices like xfce and kde and several other DE/WM's, systemd has basically upstart as an alternative and I do not think there is a question that sysvinit is lacking and needs to be replaced.  I am not sure if systemd or upstart would be the moving target in that analogy

@PackRat... sorry man!  Glad you found a way to test... thanks for the feedback

[PackRat]

@vastone - I just replaced siduction; it has some quirks on my computers, so more than happy to go VSIDO to test Sid+systemd

have i3 and xfce going now.

I noticed that a lot of i3 and xfce configs etc... were on the iso. I thought you were going fluxbox only going forward. If so, you should probably clean some of that out. Keep the i3 configs in the wm thread in case someone wants them.

[VastOne]

Interesting.. what were the issues with Siduction?

Those have been left there by design... they were the defaults for VSIDO when xfce, i3 and openbox were a part of VSIDO and would give the user a look at VSIDO with them on an install.  I wanted to keep them there in the interim but I think they can be removed now

Thanks for the feedback

[PackRat]

On this laptop, Siduction recognizes the keyboard as US English, but assigned the win-key, CTRL-R, and ALT-R something different that other distros - something Euro/German by default I suppose. It's a quick fix with some changes in .Xmodmap, but it threw me for a loop the first time I installed it and a bunch of my key bindings didn't work.

I'll get the occasional pop-up window in German; Slackel does the same thing - only in Greek.