Author Topic: sysvinit still possible?  (Read 8263 times)

Snap

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sysvinit still possible?
« on: September 02, 2015, 12:09:11 PM »
AFAIK, In the Debian world only antiX keeps going with sysvinit leaving systemd off the equation. But if I got it right (I might be wrong, as usual), only for Stable. It seems they want to make this possible for the rolling flavors too. But for now if you want to be sure to keep going with sysvinit you must stick to Jessie.

In a different territory, the guys from the BBQ used to build systemd-free Sid based isos instead, but since machinebacon stopped handling the grill, it seems all quiet over there with no new releases in months. I wonder how the BBQ will evolve. In any case, for now, the sysvinit door for Sid seems to be closed for that neighborhood too. Their last isos are already too old and having 4.0 kernels not usable in virtualbox without struggling, tweaking and remastering to make them login the X.

I'm wondering... is there still a way to switch to sysvinit (or any other init system)? The Arch guys can do it. But it seems is not that easy in Debian.

PackRat

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 12:23:55 PM »
It use to be possible to go back to sysvinit and purge systemd from Debian - for example - although I have no idea if this will bork your system

Requires some configuration of apt as well. I think the main issue you will have is the "the following command removes packages that depend on systemd itself or things like libpam-systemd!" warning in that method. You could end up not being able to use a lot of the Debian packages.
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VastOne

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 03:44:43 AM »
Not any safe way that I know of Snap.  The surest way would be a debian base install and then remove systemd and replace with sysvinit and then make it what you wanted. That seems a boatload of work

Dare I ask, why did Bacon and BBQ split?
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PackRat

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 10:29:28 AM »
I think he is too busy with other things and life in general.
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blaze

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2015, 07:02:04 PM »
Dare I ask, why did Bacon and BBQ split?

?. There is a new CWM release at the BBQ today from Bacon.
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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2015, 08:41:46 PM »
Good to hear.. thanks blaze
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Snap

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2015, 07:48:10 AM »
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Dare I ask, why did Bacon and BBQ split?

He's an enlightenment developer now.

Quote
?. There is a new CWM release at the BBQ today from Bacon.

And apparently an hyperactive guy too.

Snap

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2015, 08:20:45 AM »
Quote
It use to be possible to go back to sysvinit and purge systemd from Debian - for example - although I have no idea if this will bork your system

Requires some configuration of apt as well. I think the main issue you will have is the "the following command removes packages that depend on systemd itself or things like libpam-systemd!" warning in that method. You could end up not being able to use a lot of the Debian packages.

I tried that once and actually fully borked the system. I think I'll wait until anticapitalista and friends make possible to live in all the three Debian flavors safely without systemd. This is a wild bet, but I suspect they'll be switching to Devuan if it finally makes it though. I guess the way to go for now is keeping the system as simple and slim as possible to manage to keep systemd off. Too many packages depend on systemd now.

Quote
Not any safe way that I know of Snap.  The surest way would be a debian base install and then remove systemd and replace with sysvinit and then make it what you wanted. That seems a boatload of work

Yes, it is a damn lot of work. Perhaps. as i said above, it would be smarter to wait for antiX to get there and using the antiX base instead of the Debian Net installer (which is similar but with antiX scripts on board and sysvinit instead of systemd) and build a Vsido-like (or whatever) on top of it. I already built a Vsido-like on top of PCLinuxOS lxde stripping it down to quite bare bones and then adding the Vsido like stuff. It ended up great, though PCLOS doesn't have the huge Debian's package base. Many things have to be installed from rpms or compiled from source. But the result it's great in the end. You keep using apt as a package manager and running on sysvinit. The login managers are restricted to just three: gdm, which I still have and hate, KDM and XDM. I think I'll go without any.

It worths the experiment. The VastOne's recipe to put a system together is just great on top of any system. Next step is a Vsido-like on both Void and Arch.

All this is due to my decision to jump away the systemd boat for once. I want to replace my current main system: SolydK (On Jessie testing when I switched to it and now on Jessie stable), for anything without a DE and systemd. It will be fluxbox and still don't know the system underneath. My first intention was replacing it for Vsido within the next months (too lazy for a full switch), but now it doesn't fit. I'm doing a lot of tests and different installs. That's why I'd like to build a Vsido-like on top of systemd-free Debian. If not possible, then going anywhere else. I'd like to keep going on Debian, but don't know if this is viable anymore.

PS, I haven't managed to make pclos vsido-like running as light as the real vsido yet. Vsido64 runs on ~100 MB of RAM at idle after a fresh boot. pclos is still iddling @ ~170 MB. Gotta sort this out.

jedi

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2015, 01:27:20 AM »

It worths the experiment. The VastOne's recipe to put a system together is just great on top of any system. Next step is a Vsido-like on both Void and Arch.


Aye, VastOne definitely has the recipe going on!  Not sure about Void, but Arch is systemd now also.  Probably systemd is everything pretty soon... :(
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PackRat

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2015, 01:54:32 AM »
Void started out as systemd but switched over to runit.

Quote
All this is due to my decision to jump away the systemd boat for once

Slackware current - still BSD-style init; can use the native Slackware iso's or if you want the benefits of a package manager, you can go with Slackel. I know that their sister project Salix has a minimal install so you can build up from there - but it's Slackware 14 so it's coming up on 2 years old. I think the Slackel install has a minimal offering. It's solid, I vsido-ized it a bit a while back.

Slackware 14 coming up on 2 years old - should be a new release soon, I imagine.

Appears that BSD style init will remain though; OpenRC would be an interesting choice.
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ozitraveller

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2015, 11:44:53 PM »
For what it's worth, and I know I'm only building debian stable, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed and waiting on Devuan.

I'm still maintaining my wheezy live-build and will will do an update in line with debian 7.9. Also updating for jessie 8.2.

I'm still running sid, but only doing upgrades. Haven't tried a dist-upgrade in a long time.

Snap

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 06:48:45 AM »
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Not sure about Void, but Arch is systemd now also.  Probably systemd is everything pretty soon...

Void is on runit, which is pretty simple and seems to work great. My still limited experience with void and runit is great.

Arch's default is systemd, but apparently it can be replaced harmlessly. Not like in the Debian side. Or that's what they say. It works for Manjaro too.

Snap

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 06:54:24 AM »
Void started out as systemd but switched over to runit.

Quote
All this is due to my decision to jump away the systemd boat for once

Slackware current - still BSD-style init; can use the native Slackware iso's or if you want the benefits of a package manager, you can go with Slackel. I know that their sister project Salix has a minimal install so you can build up from there - but it's Slackware 14 so it's coming up on 2 years old. I think the Slackel install has a minimal offering. It's solid, I vsido-ized it a bit a while back.

Slackware 14 coming up on 2 years old - should be a new release soon, I imagine.

Appears that BSD style init will remain though; OpenRC would be an interesting choice.

Yes, the lack of a package manager keeps me a bit away of slackware. A lot of dedication to mantain the system. More or less like Void. it's a mid point between Arch and Gentoo. You have some package management but you'll need to compile a lot. That's why Debian or PCLinuxOS appeal me more. Much easier and less time consuming to deal with. I tried Salix a couple of times, but I found it quite rough and not running very smooth. I think Vsido is way superior. Nevertheless it might worth the experiment of tweaking Salix "the right way".

Snap

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 06:58:55 AM »
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Probably systemd is everything pretty soon...

It seems so. That's the RHEL plan, and most of the main distros are happy being taking over. We cannot stop that. Though still not too evident. Linux has already split in two. Call it schism or whatever, but it's a fact. Now we have to choose to go with Poettering and friends hegemony, or going anywhere else.

jedi

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Re: sysvinit still possible?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2015, 09:52:37 PM »
I've personally come to like and admire systemd.  sysVinit was on it's last legs and had been for a long while.  As far as Poettering is concerned, his social skills could use some improving, but all in all, I believe he is working hard to make it all work.  I don't see the split or schism you're referring too.  There was a lot of 'FUD' in the beginning about systemd.  I think most of which has been proven to be unfounded, or flat out purposefully misrepresented...
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