Author Topic: The live installer...  (Read 6666 times)

ew

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The live installer...
« on: April 09, 2013, 10:56:00 PM »
I`m currently trying to install VSIDO, and ran into problems with the installer. It seems like having a swap is required, and installing on an ssd as I`m doing, you really don`t want no swap... You want to swap only in RAM, to prolong the life of the SSD. Well, I spilt the partition to create a swap partition(can remove it later), but the installer now refuses to detect the swap, and I have to quit the installation. I have rebooted several times, but same things happen. It doesn`t detect my swap and I have to quit. I will find a way regardless. I have booted up in Ubuntu and prepared the partitions from here, hoping that the VSIDO live installer will detect it at next attempt. But you should really think about making the swap optional in the installer, because less and less people use it. Just my 2 cents, if I succeed with my next attempt to install it, I probably will think that this is a minor issue:)
-ew
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VastOne

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 11:04:18 PM »
The installer is part of the remastersys build scripts that is created by fragadelic.  I will post on his forum to ask if he can develop and option to bypass the need for a swap and report back his thoughts about it

Several users have installed to SSD and will respond here soon I am sure
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VastOne

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 11:16:20 PM »
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ew

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 11:31:51 PM »
The installer is part of the remastersys build scripts that is created by fragadelic.  I will post on his forum to ask if he can develop and option to bypass the need for a swap and report back his thoughts about it

Several users have installed to SSD and will respond here soon I am sure

It`s probably not a big issue, because I can remove the swap after install, use it for something else, or merge it with the root-partition. My issue is probably something else. I shrinked my Ubuntu-partition and created an ext4 partition, and a swap-partition, but when closing gparted, no swap is found, and the only option is to quit the install. I`m not sure what`s wrong, because the partitions looks fine in gparted, and my shrinked Ubuntu-installation still works fine. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I have 5 primary partitions, i had 3 from before, EFI, and one root eavh for Ubuntu and CB. Gparted didn`t offer me to create the VSIDO partitions as logical. Both logical and extended was greyed out, so I had to choose primary. Well, I guess I can test it by trying to install something else in those partitions. Just to know if it`s a VSIDO-issue, or if there is something off with my partition-setup. Off I go:)
-ew
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 "What happens when you read some doc and either it doesn't answer your question or is demonstrably wrong? In Linux, you say "Linux sucks" and go read the code. In Windows/Oracle/etc you say "Windows sucks" and start banging your head against the wall."
--- Denis Vlasenko on lkml

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 11:38:29 PM »
I would wait for jedi's help on this... he has become a master of the SSD and UEFI issues..

He should be around soon
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jedi

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 01:38:21 AM »
The grayed out Logical and Extended is because your disk is setup as GPT.  GPT can have many, many, partitions (did I mention GPT could have a lot of Primary partitions?) all of which will be Primary.  On a disc that is setup with msdos (the default in gparted) you can only have 4 Primary partitions.  That is why the Logical and Extended are there, for msdos setup discs.

As far as SWAP on an SSD, todays SSD's are basically 'write-proof' so to speak. (IN MY OPINION) Any drive newer than a couple of years will be this way.  The SWAP part of the VSIDO install is because of the Remastersys scripts as VastOne said.  Once installed you can indeed remove it.  (I have my swap file on a separate 7200rpm hdd so if I want hibernate I can.  Hibernate requires at least the amount of physical RAM to be enabled in SWAP)
If you are worried about 'writes' to the SSD, you can also edit the fstab and load several different folders/directories to RAM via the tmpfs setting.
You'll also want to be sure to enable TRIM in your fstab file on the main partitions, i.e. / and /home and any other separate partition you setup on your SSD.
In the /etc/fstab file you'll see to the right of each of your partitions, a section that says - errors=remount-ro 0 1
You'll want to change that in order to enable Trim support by changing the part that says - errors=remount-ro 0 1 to say noatime,discard 0 1
That enables Trim.

I load the following folders/directories into RAM to save 'writes' to the SSD
/tmp
/var/log
/var/tmp
/var/spool
(make note that if you use anacron, then loading /var/spool into RAM will prevent it from running)
Here is what a typical line looks like in /etc/fstab once it's added to the file;
tmpfs        /tmp           tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=1777    0 0
tmpfs        /var/log       tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=0755    0 0
tmpfs        /var/tmp      tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=1777    0 0
tmpfs        /var/spool    tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=1777    0 0

Doing this will load the aforementioned folders/directories to RAM, thus saving 'writes' to you SSD.

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.  Remember some of this stuff is just "OPINION" and others may recommend totally different settings. These are settings I use and they work for me!  Having an SSD drive is like switching from an old AMC Gremlin to a brand new Ferrari!!! Enjoy...
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jedi

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 02:09:33 AM »
This is what my /etc/fstab file looks like;

Code: [Select]
# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>

proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/sda1 / ext4 noatime,discard 0 1
/dev/sda5 /media/TestA ext4 noatime,discard 0 0
/dev/sda6 /media/TestB ext4 noatime,discard 0 0
/dev/sda7 /media/TestC ext4 noatime,discard 0 0
/dev/sda8 /media/TestD ext4 noatime,discard 0 0
/dev/sdb2 /media/music ext4 defaults 0 0
/dev/sdb3 /media/pictures ext4 defaults 0 0
/dev/sdb5 /media/ebooks ext4 defaults 0 0
/dev/sdb6 /media/bu ext4 defaults 0 0
/dev/sda2 /home ext4 noatime,discard 0 0
/dev/sdb1 none swap sw 0 0
/dev/cdrom /media/cdrom udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec,utf8 0 0
tmpfs       /tmp            tmpfs   defaults,noatime,mode=1777  0   0
tmpfs       /var/log        tmpfs   defaults,noatime,mode=0755  0   0
tmpfs       /var/tmp        tmpfs   defaults,noatime,mode=1777  0   0
tmpfs       /var/spool      tmpfs   defaults,noatime,mode=1777  0   0

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VastOne

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 02:11:04 AM »
Wow, what an explanation... very nice work jedi!
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jedi

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 02:33:28 AM »
And on another note;  I should be honest here and mention that I've tried thrice (three times) to use GPT and failed!  If your successful at installing with your disk setup as GPT instead of msdos, I'd be very appreciative for some pointers.  I'm assuming something has to be done at the BIOS level that I haven't accomplished yet.
Anyway, if you are successful at getting VSIDO up and running using GPT let me know.  This is not a short-coming of VSIDO, it is a lack of knowledge of GPT installing on my part.
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ozitraveller

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 02:57:42 AM »
jedi have you outside of VSIO  before?

I'm using it, but I did a debian sid install. It just worked.

;)

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 03:01:54 AM »
Also ew, the swap isn't found because your GPT formatted disc can only see Primary partitions.  Unless you have a second hdd formatted as msdos, it will not see any swap partition you make...
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ew

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 11:36:51 AM »
The grayed out Logical and Extended is because your disk is setup as GPT.  GPT can have many, many, partitions (did I mention GPT could have a lot of Primary partitions?) all of which will be Primary.  On a disc that is setup with msdos (the default in gparted) you can only have 4 Primary partitions.  That is why the Logical and Extended are there, for msdos setup discs.

As far as SWAP on an SSD, todays SSD's are basically 'write-proof' so to speak. (IN MY OPINION) Any drive newer than a couple of years will be this way.  The SWAP part of the VSIDO install is because of the Remastersys scripts as VastOne said.  Once installed you can indeed remove it.  (I have my swap file on a separate 7200rpm hdd so if I want hibernate I can.  Hibernate requires at least the amount of physical RAM to be enabled in SWAP)
If you are worried about 'writes' to the SSD, you can also edit the fstab and load several different folders/directories to RAM via the tmpfs setting.
You'll also want to be sure to enable TRIM in your fstab file on the main partitions, i.e. / and /home and any other separate partition you setup on your SSD.
In the /etc/fstab file you'll see to the right of each of your partitions, a section that says - errors=remount-ro 0 1
You'll want to change that in order to enable Trim support by changing the part that says - errors=remount-ro 0 1 to say noatime,discard 0 1
That enables Trim.

I load the following folders/directories into RAM to save 'writes' to the SSD
/tmp
/var/log
/var/tmp
/var/spool
(make note that if you use anacron, then loading /var/spool into RAM will prevent it from running)
Here is what a typical line looks like in /etc/fstab once it's added to the file;
tmpfs        /tmp           tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=1777    0 0
tmpfs        /var/log       tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=0755    0 0
tmpfs        /var/tmp      tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=1777    0 0
tmpfs        /var/spool    tmpfs      defaults,noatime,mode=1777    0 0

Doing this will load the aforementioned folders/directories to RAM, thus saving 'writes' to you SSD.

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.  Remember some of this stuff is just "OPINION" and others may recommend totally different settings. These are settings I use and they work for me!  Having an SSD drive is like switching from an old AMC Gremlin to a brand new Ferrari!!! Enjoy...

I have two other installs that works on this ssd, Ubuntu and #!. Trim is working fine for those. I`m not using online discard(fstab), because I read it was not recommended. I use the command "sudo fstrim -v /" in a shell script, so that I only have to use the command "trim" when I want to do it. I also could set it up as a daily cron job, but I see no need to do that. I don`t forget to run trim now and then. I followed these advices, and there it states that online discard is not recommended. Don`t know why:http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/enable-trim-on-ssd-solid-state-drives.html

As for the Primary Partitions. I know that there isn`t a limit on 4 with gpt, and gpt was fully intentional because I`m uefi-booting and have no issues whatsoever doing that. I just thought that perhaps the VSIDO live installer have a issue with that, because after creating a etx4-partition and a swap partition in gparted,(and apply the changes of course), then I close the Gparted window to continue the installation,and get to the choose swap part, but then I only get the option to quit the installation.... No swap to choose from.

I registered a difference when trying to install from the lates install media. On earlier versions there has popped up a lot of windows with partitions being mounted, but no partitions gets mounted when I do it in this version.  Just to test, I tried installing Bodhi on the partitions I created for VSIDO, and that was no problem... So I don`t know whats off. I only know that I have to quit the installer because swap isn`t detected, even if it is there....
-ew
-----------------------------
 "What happens when you read some doc and either it doesn't answer your question or is demonstrably wrong? In Linux, you say "Linux sucks" and go read the code. In Windows/Oracle/etc you say "Windows sucks" and start banging your head against the wall."
--- Denis Vlasenko on lkml

ew

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
And on another note;  I should be honest here and mention that I've tried thrice (three times) to use GPT and failed!  If your successful at installing with your disk setup as GPT instead of msdos, I'd be very appreciative for some pointers.  I'm assuming something has to be done at the BIOS level that I haven't accomplished yet.
Anyway, if you are successful at getting VSIDO up and running using GPT let me know.  This is not a short-coming of VSIDO, it is a lack of knowledge of GPT installing on my part.

OK, then I guess that`s where the problem is. But I think you are wrong when you blame it on your knowledge of gpt, because I`ve used gpt for a very long time, and have never had a issue getting it to work. Ubuntu does it automatically, you don`t have to think about anything, the same with CrunchBang and at least 20-30 other distros that I`ve tried on gpt. Uefi could cause issues with some, but not gpt. Now I`m efi-booting, but gpt works just as fine with mbr(bios-mode). If it is a issue, then it is a issue in VSIDO or the VSIDO live-installer, because gpt is the default today, and should work right out of the box.

If both Ubuntu and CrunchBang are running fine on my gpt-disk, then the issue has to be with.... The difference is the installer, it would probably have worked perfect if VSIDO just the same installer as for example Crunchbang does. It`s also a more flexible installer...
-ew
-----------------------------
 "What happens when you read some doc and either it doesn't answer your question or is demonstrably wrong? In Linux, you say "Linux sucks" and go read the code. In Windows/Oracle/etc you say "Windows sucks" and start banging your head against the wall."
--- Denis Vlasenko on lkml

ew

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 12:01:45 PM »
jedi have you outside of VSIO  before?

I'm using it, but I did a debian sid install. It just worked.

;)

It does that with every distro. It has to be the VSIDO live installer that isn`t handling this as it should. Nothing wrong with VSIDO, it`s just an insufficient installer that lack flexability. It`s normal to be able to do a lot more during install. Like choosing what partititions you want, set mount points, and select which partitions to mount at boot, and in the other installers like the one Crunchbang has(the same installer as with 80% of the distros I try), it`s possible to go back and redo steps. With the VSIDO installer you have to quit the installer when for example swap isn`t found. Whether or not I get it to work, I still will dislike the installer. But I guess it`s part of remastersys, and therefore there probably nothing to do about it...
-ew
-----------------------------
 "What happens when you read some doc and either it doesn't answer your question or is demonstrably wrong? In Linux, you say "Linux sucks" and go read the code. In Windows/Oracle/etc you say "Windows sucks" and start banging your head against the wall."
--- Denis Vlasenko on lkml

VastOne

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Re: The live installer...
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 12:06:50 PM »
Yes the VSIDO installer sucks in some ways, other people say it's the best they have ever seen... I do know it is by far the fastest I have ever seen

I am wondering if what makes it work in #! and in Ubuntu and other distros is an application that is installed that is missing in VSIDO... This could very well be the cause

OTOH, I am disturbed by some recent developments with remastersys and it's code and do have another installer that I can use.  It is the LMDE installer and once I get the LMDE branding removed from it and replace it with VSIDO, I can use it along with the same installer we have now for people to test
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