To be fair to VastOne, we are indeed best friends. We are also both Americans. Because of being Americans, we can be best friends and still have totally opposite and opposing views on a myriad of different subjects.
When this thread started, I did voice my opposition to it. I wanted to delete it. It is a very charged and politically incorrect subject to talk about. Discourse on the subject tends to be EXTREME! I was 'encouraged' to let the thread play itself out. I commented to VastOne that I'd just ignore it. He laughed at me! Friends who, indeed, know each other well!
Actually we should all read the Constitution and the Amendments to it as a duty of being an American. Not that I ever disagree with VastOne, but the slavery thing -
The following is directly quoted from the
Things that aren't in the Constitution website;
Slavery
Originally, the Framers of the Constitution were very careful about avoiding the words "slave" and "slavery" in the text of the Constitution. Instead, they used phrases like "importation of Persons" at Article 1, Section 9 for the slave trade, "other persons" at Article 1, Section 2, and "person held to service or labor" at Article 4, Section 2 for slaves. Not until the 13th Amendment was slavery mentioned specifically in the Constitution. There the term was used to ensure that there was to be no ambiguity as what exactly the words were eliminating. In the 14th Amendment, the euphemism "other persons" (and the three-fifths value given a slave) was eliminated.
Also some claim all the time that "God" was part of that document. This is entirely false as "He" isn't mentioned once! The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts.
Anyway, that isn't what this thread is about. I wanted to specifically respond to seppalta. The idea that I'm 'extreme' in my views, was frankly a little upsetting to me and got me thinking "Am I Extreme"? I quickly decided "no"! ISIS is extreme. I'm about as far from extreme as one can get! So here goes...
These are my personal feelings and views on this matter and in no way are they meant to be representative, or reflect, the views of VSIDO or the VSIDO forums!
the viewpoint expressed by Mr. Jedi is an extreme view not held by most Americans (over 70% want more controls on gun ownership and 58% do not have a gun in their home)
Actually 68% of Americans claim they have no guns. (Gallup)
As to the laughable statistic quoted of 70% wanting more gun control, that number in reality is 47% that say they'd like more strict laws, while up to 52% say less strict or stay the same! (also Gallup)
However, what is TRUE about gun ownership - Only about 12 percent of civilian weapons are thought to be registered with authorities. So my thinking is that WAY MORE than 32% of Americans have guns.
and the government and police have weapons unimaginably more efficient than guns. Think about it.
and per gallup;
Do you think there should or should not be a law that would ban the possession of handguns, except by the police and other authorized persons?
yes should be - 26%
NO SHOULD NOT BE - 73%
(can you imagine living somewhere where only the police, the approved government officials, i.e. agents of said government or military, and finally, CRIMINALS were the only ones with guns? Now that folks, is very scary indeed!)
and last but certainly far from being least on seppalta's claims;
The problem in my mind is simply one of numbers. There are too many guns too easily accessed created by the good-old American free enterprise system: "He who dies with the most toys wins!" Unfortunately, guns are one of the "toys" pushed on us, and too many people are too stupid to resist accumulating these useless toys, not to mention being brain washed by the National Rifle Association and the gun manufactures to accumulate them.
China dwarfs America in the production of guns. Next is Russia. The last time I checked on the statistics of where in the world guns are made, America wasn't even in the top 5!
The "TOY" statement is especially offensive. Any person who considers a gun a TOY has no business owning a gun ever, period! I've NEVER been around other gun owners who called a gun a toy, and if so, I'd never be around them again. Guns are definitely not on the list of "TOYS" unless we're classifying squirt-guns in there. As far as "guns are one of the "'TOYS'" pushed on us" claim? When was the last time anyone in America saw a commercial about a gun and how you NEED to buy it now!? Simply false!
I'm not certain, but is it even legal to advertise guns? Like cigarettes I believe you can not advertise them for sale in most media, and further more, what liberal media outlet would even let a manufacturer of guns advertise them for sell?
As to the final claim about the NRA (National Rifle Association) I am not, nor have ever been a member. I don't have any particular feelings about the NRA, I'm just not really a joiner. I know over the last couple of years they've made some ridiculous statements, and offensive ones at that. As to their "brain washing" abilities, I can't speak to that. I'm of the opinion that if you can be "brain washed" you probably should be the last person on Earth to have a firearm!
This from the Reuters news service;
The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, easily making it the most heavily armed society in the world.
U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.
About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.
"There is roughly one firearm for every seven people worldwide. Without the United States, though, this drops to about one firearm per 10 people," it said.
The following statement PROVES what gunless societies end up as:
India had the world's second-largest civilian gun arsenal, with an estimated 46 million firearms outside law enforcement and the military, though this represented just four guns per 100 people there. China, ranked third with 40 million privately held guns, had 3 firearms per 100 people.
It gets much worse;
Nigeria, for instance, has just one gun per 100 people. Anyone immigrating to Nigeria? I'm not saying that to be offensive, just stating a FACT. A society without guns is more than 90% more likely to be a society living in fear of their fellow man and/or their own government.
For more NON-American based numbers and statistics, I'd recommend the "Small Arms Survey" site out of Geneva, Switzerland. It is at
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org.
For those of you who are curious, I personally do own guns. I personally have also lost 5 immediate family members to murder, specifically murdered with guns. I do not blame the guns. The people who committed these murders would have done so with or without guns.
