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VSIDO Controls => VSIDO Discussions => Topic started by: VastOne on January 06, 2015, 03:15:47 AM

Title: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 06, 2015, 03:15:47 AM
I am sick of Iceweasel / FF / Mozilla to the point of no return

Ice cannot handle flash anymore, it stays at 33-50% cpu all the time and has memory leaks that never get solved

It is old and archaic and takes up MORE than 1/3 of the ISO and then runs like shit!  ???

I want ideas and thoughts for a replacement ONLY for access to the web from the Live-CD... I have no issue at all telling new users it is their responsibility to install a browser  as a first duty after vsido-welcome.  I can also make it a choice there, but I want feedback first

I have tolerated Iceweasel til now because Debian does, but no longer!  >:(

Regards from a pissed off VastOne....
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: jedi on January 06, 2015, 03:35:17 AM
Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Hate to admit it, but I've been using Chrome the last couple of months.  Being able to watch Netflix was the initial draw, but as I've used it more and more, I've noticed that it's handling of memory and cpu use is much more efficient than Iceweasel.  With Adobe no longer updating Flash for Linux, I'd think Mozilla will continue to go backwards.

Has anyone tried Opera?  Perhaps for the LiveCd it would be alright.  Looks pretty small.  I agree with the thinking of letting it be a choice after installation for the user when choosing a browser.  Looks to be a ton of different 'small footprint' Linux web browsers out there to choose from...
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 06, 2015, 04:05:54 AM
I haven't tried Opera in a while - they stopped the linux version for a while, but I think they make a current version now. I always liked it, but I just checked and it is not in the repos. Installing the deb package from their site, use to add a repo, maybe it still does.

Any of the WebKit based browsers would be suitable for the live CD, all have a small foot print and there are specialty ones for privacy etc .. Midori is probably the most common one; it's in the repos but looks to be at least one release behind. The FAQ page for Midori has some quick fixes to get it looking right for gtk3, and flash enabled. Xombrero is built for privacy and has a following - it's interface is kind of shitty and it didn't seem particularly intuitive.

There is also dillo (also in the repos) that has a small footprint and is popular with the Puppy Linux derivatives. The interface is a bit retro in a Win95 way, but I think it's a QT app derived from the KDE 3.5 browser so it's not so appealing in gtk3.

Have not tried Sea Monkey in years- still being developed? Edit - it is, beta 3 of upcoming release, but based on current Firefox. I thought it was an independent fork from Netscape.

They have a small footprint, but I never really liked uzbl or surf; in part because I can't write the code to extend their capabilities.

Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 06, 2015, 11:47:31 AM
Extending this discussion a bit- or just going off on a tangent  :D - which browser fits your design philosophy?

Probably don't want to fall into the trap of having a hodge podge of minimalist and "bloat" packages.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 06, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
Something that works but does not require 200 MiB to run. Practical but not minimal... Does that make sense? All I care is that you can access the internet and YouTube works without grinding the CPU to a halt.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 06, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Probably want to go with Midori set up for flash/youtube - which is easy enough to do; I did it when I was running SalixOS. Then we users can decide if we want Firefox, Chromium, or Opera, etc ....

Don't know if you ever used it, the interface is pretty straight forward, does all the basics.

Did an install of Chromium and Opera - both come in around 225 MiB sitting idle on vsido.org and around 500 Mib with a youtube video (Santana with Michelle Branch) going in a second tab. About what I get with Firefox. HP laptop with i3 and intel graphics.

And opera does create an entry in the /apt/sources to keep it updated; they split out the mail though so it's just a browser now. Didn't realize how much of it is based on Google Chrome now.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 06, 2015, 04:42:19 PM
I need to clarify my 200 MiB statement... I do not care how much memory or CPU any app uses as along as it does not take captive the CPU or has mem leaks that keep going even after you stop the app

I was speaking of space on the ISO with that statement... that and the required garbage that goes along with installing IW or Chromium

I get it, the thing everyone uses the most is a browser, no question about it.  But the sacrifice is getting too damned extreme

I will look at Midori first as the replacement
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 06, 2015, 04:53:56 PM
It would satisfy both; although I just tried it and it's memory use is getting up there. Runs smooth though.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 06, 2015, 04:54:32 PM
Midori is working with flash OOTB, most likely using flash that I have installed for Iceweasel... but everything is blue, all skin and faces. (makes porn interesting! like an xrated Avatar)

I know the fix used to be to turn off hw acceleration, but even though I have the option to do that with a right click on the youtube video, nothing seems to work turning it off
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 06, 2015, 04:57:53 PM
And, of course, turning that off cranks up the CPU usage.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 06, 2015, 10:48:05 PM
I am worrying too much about flash and youtube video playing...

VSIDO's job should be to get you to the internet and how you setup video / flash etc from there is your issue

I did confirm that Midori does look for and use the same /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so file that Iceweasel depends on...

... so it is in the same long term failure that situation IW is in, eventually it is going to break

The other side is that the VSIDO's default multimedia player (smplayer) is setup and can pull in youtube videos so that option is covered ... it has a fantastic search engine for videos and just works

I am prepared to rip out everything Mozilla and flash and go with Midori with no options for flash on Live-CD or first boot (except for smplayer) and then leaving it to the user to replace Midori with their choices

I can setup vsido-welcome to do this but honestly, why?  A lot of ppl will choose google-chrome and I will not put that as an option (even though I use it)... it just is not open as we all covet and apt-get is easy for anything else

What say you VSIDO'ns?
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: ozitraveller on January 06, 2015, 11:49:22 PM
From the Midori site

Quote
Midori ships with Flash disabled by default

Chrome is my goto browser, and have looked into this issue for my live-build. As of the latest build I'm using IW, but that will change for the final release. I have tried Midori before, and as my requirements are small it suits me quite well.

My initial reason for my live-build was to create a basic desktop with a small selection of applications, then it's up to the user to decide what they want.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 07, 2015, 12:25:17 AM
Quote
I am prepared to rip out everything Mozilla and flash and go with Midori with no options for flash on Live-CD or first boot (except for smplayer) and then leaving it to the user to replace Midori with their choices

That should work. Lynx is installed as a text based browser as well so using apt-get or getting to a site and downloading a browser of choice is not an issue.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 07, 2015, 12:25:59 AM
Good to know Ozi... thanks for the input

Midori only uses and must have libflashplayer.so to play flash whether it be a direct install or the nspluginwrapper which also installs libflashplayer.so

I can find no settings in Midori regarding flash at all... it is assuming you know what to do to get flash working.

I am not going to worry about flash at all and Midori does fit the bill
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 07, 2015, 12:39:53 AM
FYI I have turned off all flash and am using Midori and it is quiet and small... cpu below 5% (normal) mem at 671 with 5 apps and 3 tabs open... this is way lower (by a gig) than IW or Chrome

(Need to enable spellcheck plugin)
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: ozitraveller on January 07, 2015, 01:08:08 AM
Good to know Ozi... thanks for the input

Midori only uses and must have libflashplayer.so to play flash whether it be a direct install or the nspluginwrapper which also installs libflashplayer.so

I can find no settings in Midori regarding flash at all... it is assuming you know what to do to get flash working.

I am not going to worry about flash at all and Midori does fit the bill

I don't need flash work for my needs with my live-build. I just need a browser to display an info page.

But I came across this:
https://wiki.xfce.org/midori/faq#flash_doesn_t_work (https://wiki.xfce.org/midori/faq#flash_doesn_t_work)
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: jedi on January 07, 2015, 01:08:08 AM
Your right as usual, no Chrome in the welcome script.  Midori will suffice to allow a user to jump onto the web in the event they need to while booted to the LiveCd.  After the install it should be up to the individual user as to what they use to browse.  It is probably the most used program a user will use, (the browser) so allow them to get familiar with 'apt-get'!

If your interested in some history;
Adobe announced the decision on Feb. 22, 2012 to no longer support Flash in the Linux environment, calling version 11.2 "The End"  (my words).  To top it all off, they advised all Linux users to switch to Google's Chrome browser.  The Chrome dev's came up with the PPAPI, which we've come to know as "Pepper", and Mozilla, in all their wisdom, decided that they would NOT adopt or pursue the use of "Pepper" in Firefox.  Looking back on it now, it is easy to see how deeply Adobe is in bed with Apple and MS!
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 07, 2015, 01:42:45 AM
@ozi -

that looks like a reprint from the midori FAQ page. The gstreamer section just below that concerning HTML5 etc ... is a also a good one to review.

@vastone - I've been messing around with opera today since I have it installed. Just for informational purposes, it's nice, but basically an aesthetically redesigned chrome browser.

I'll have to give Midori some more attention based on your results.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 07, 2015, 03:28:12 AM
@ Ozi... that libflashplayer.so and it's location are already VSIDO standards just for Iceweasel to have working flash OOTB.  Midori sees that fine and flash works as soon as I install (except everyone is blue) ... as soon as I delete that file for purposes of testing, Midori can no longer handle flash.  The bottom line is that if Midori wants any future, it needs to find a way around this issue because there is no one maintaining libflashplayer.so. That file is 3 years old now and is horrendously behind and IMO it is a miracle it still works at all

The SID version of Midori I installed is version 0.4.3+dfsg-0.2... the latest released version is 0.5.8-1 ... a monster difference and one that makes no sense as there is a debian package maintainer for Midori.  I have installed the latest version and it does at least have spell checking (but does not seem to work)

I now have 9 tabs open and 4 apps and cpu is at 4% and the memory is at 747... this is impressive and I KNOW in my bones it is because that file (libflashplayer.so) is no longer in play

Also an interesting situation... If i use Google search to find something say (midori + '(null)' can't be found) and click on a google search find, I get that error ...  '(null)' can't be found ... but if I right click on the search find and select to open it in another tab, it opens fine... If I open the same search in Duck Duck Go, everything works fine...

Regarding DDG, is it me or does that search system SUCK?  I never get the responses I expect
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: ozitraveller on January 07, 2015, 04:18:38 AM
@ Ozi... that libflashplayer.so and it's location are already VSIDO standards just for Iceweasel to have working flash OOTB.  Midori sees that fine and flash works as soon as I install (except everyone is blue) ... as soon as I delete that file for purposes of testing, Midori can no longer handle flash.  The bottom line is that if Midori wants any future, it needs to find a way around this issue because there is no one maintaining libflashplayer.so. That file is 3 years old now and is horrendously behind and IMO it is a miracle it still works at all

The SID version of Midori I installed is version 0.4.3+dfsg-0.2... the latest released version is 0.5.8-1 ... a monster difference and one that makes no sense as there is a debian package maintainer for Midori.  I have installed the latest version and it does at least have spell checking (but does not seem to work)

I now have 9 tabs open and 4 apps and cpu is at 4% and the memory is at 747... this is impressive and I KNOW in my bones it is because that file (libflashplayer.so) is no longer in play

Also an interesting situation... If i use Google search to find something say (midori + '(null)' can't be found) and click on a google search find, I get that error ...  '(null)' can't be found ... but if I right click on the search find and select to open it in another tab, it opens fine... If I open the same search in Duck Duck Go, everything works fine...

Regarding DDG, is it me or does that search system SUCK?  I never get the responses I expect

@vastone - I think the jessie build I did used the same version as sid from memory. I use DDG as well, I turned off the safe search when I realised results didn't look right.
That memory usage a excellent, and make browsing when running live awesome. I don't think I will worry about flash, I'll let the user install whatever they prefer.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 07, 2015, 02:44:42 PM
Quote
Regarding DDG, is it me or does that search system SUCK?  I never get the responses I expect

I have never had this problem with it.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 07, 2015, 03:12:07 PM
^ then I must be doing something wrong or need a settings tweak

Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 10, 2015, 01:21:15 AM
I have completed the swap out of Mozilla completely ... Midori 5.8 is setup as the default and in eliminating Iceweasel and libflashplayer.so I have knocked 50 MiB off the size of both ISO's making the x32 452 Mib and the x64 at 436 MiB

On another note, there is a Webkit based browser that was developed 3 years ago by Google devs called Arora (https://code.google.com/p/arora/)... it does not need libflashplayer.so to play flash on YouTube...

It is in SID for anyone wanting to check it out... I would use it (and may still) if it was not so old since it has been touched... Y'all check it out and tell me what you think of it  .. I actually like it better than Midori

I still have not made up my mind... if it is worth 50 MiB savings to change everything we have known for 3 years as VSIDO... but then I fire up Iceweasel and see how horrible the CPU is using libflashplayer.so... If any of you want to test it, completely disable and remove libflashplayer.so from /usr/lib/mozilla (and any local you may have setup in your /home) ... what you will discover is Iceweasel without libflashplayer.so uses no runaway memory and zero cpu and see that it is not my decision

Lets have input...
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: PackRat on January 10, 2015, 03:54:26 AM
Arora is Webkit but QT based so if you decide to go that route you may actually pull in 50MiB of qt-based dependencies. I want to say KDE incorporated a bunch of it's code into KDE 4.x but I would have to verify that. People that use it give it good reviews.

Isn't there an add on for iceweasel/firefox that plays all flash video in HTML5 so that the flash plugin is no longer required? Another option, perhaps?

Edit - yes, the Youtube All HTML5 plugin. I removed flash plugin and installed this add on, YouTube works fine; a bit hit and miss with embedded video on news sites. CPU use returns to pre-video state when it's done playing.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: jedi on January 10, 2015, 04:05:29 AM
This might take a minute...  ???  (this post was made with the thought in mind, that some users abhor non-free software, the original reason for using Iceweasel in the first place, I think)

Personally, I think, in the end, there is no good answer to this thread.  We've always been proud of how small the ISO's are for VSIDO, when compared to the largess of the distro as a whole.  IMO, 50Mb is too small of an amount to seriously sway the conversation one way or the other.  I have not burned a CD in ages.  That doesn't mean others are not.  I think as long as the ISO's stay of a size where they will fit on a CD is a big plus/winner for VSIDO.  None of the big (as in lots of packages and bling and WM's and DE's) distro's can make that claim, nor have they been able to for a long time.

I think the user should make the decision in the end.  VastOne, you've created a distro as close to perfection, IMO, that is possible.  As long as there is something available to browse the web while booted into a Live environment, all should be good.  Midori fits this description, so all in all, a good solution.  That said, it still relies on libflashplayer.so.  As noted below, this solution is really only viable for the next 2 years at most.  Vulnerabilities in Flash will render the use of libflashplayer.so moot at that point.  That means it will not work for VSIDO due to security issues at that point in time, and another choice will have to be made.  That is all well and good too, as 2 years from now, this whole conversation may have been rendered moot...

I have spent a few days reading/studying the question about Flash.  (really, when you boil it down, that is the real issue here, and the only reason we're having this conversation)

Adobe made a terrible decision to stop supporting it (Flash) in 2012.  Worse, they are only providing security updates for 5 years from that date.  (On or approximately Feb. 22, 2012)  So, for Iceweasel/Firefox that means, at the most, 2 more years of safe use.  What I find remarkable in all of this is that Google seems to have really made the decision for everyone.  When it comes to OOTB Flash use, Google's PPAPI (henceforth called "Pepper") is only available to the Chrome browser.  (Yes, I'm aware that IE and Safari are also supported, however, that is not relevant to this thread)  Mozilla is never going to implement it.  Ever!  So, with that said, what to do?

These are the two BIG browsers everyone is most familiar with.  (OK, I might should add uzbl in there as well   :D)  Google has fired a shot across the bow, so to speak, by stripping support for NPAPI (the N in NPAPI stands for Netscape, the predecessor of IW/FF) from their browsers.  Mozilla refuses to even try working with Pepper.  (for good reason IMO)  In effect, giving each other the finger, and leaving us (the Linux community at large) the worse off for it.

Found here; https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729481#c83  It is a long read and this is the succinct essence of Mozilla's thinking when considering the Pepper API.
Quote from: Boris Zbarsky
This has been discussed to death on the technical discussion mailing list.  Let me summarize the most salient points of that discussion, for those not willing to go read it themselves:

1)  There is no actual clear definition of the Pepper API.  It's basically defined by Google's implementation.  There's API documentation, but that doesn't cover edge cases, and it's quite likely that actual plugins written against the API rely on the edge cases.

2)  Google's implementation is very much tied to Blink and is not designed to work with any other rendering engine.

3)  The Flash plugin in particular uses a ton of non-public Pepper APIs that are not even mentioned in the Pepper API documentation.

Anyone commenting on this bug who hasn't bothered to go read those discussions and understand these points and their implications is wasting not only their own time but also that of everyone cced on this bug.

Given the number of people who seem to be intent on doing that, at least 7 people (counting myself as of this comment) have removed themselves from the cc list of this bug in the last few days, because we don't particularly like having our time wasted.  The end result here is likely a "why isn't Mozilla adding support for Pepper?" echo chamber, because I doubt new people showing up here will bother to read either this comment or the mailing list discussion....

Thus, the end result being that the user decides what and how they will view and play on the web.  My reasoning for letting new VSIDO users choose their own browser.

I happen to like a few of Google's features.  I also happen to hate a few as well, but this is not a Google "HATE" thread.  (Google Drive in particular, I use a LOT)  With that in mind, as well as finally being able to watch Netflix natively in Linux, I have switched to Chrome.  It pains me, as I have always loved and used Iceweasel/Firefox.  (And yes, Netscape before that)  I firmly believe that Chrome should not be the default browser in VSIDO.  This was a "personal" choice for me.  It is a choice I would make no matter what distro of Linux I was using for the reasons stated above.

VSIDO is about FOSS at its core, (yes, yes, I know, SID is the reason!  ;D ) and adding anything non-free should be left to the user.  VastOne has been a FOSS advocate for many years now, and look at how lucky we are because of that!  If I'm not mistaken, VSIDO has never had any non-free software installed since day 1.  Google Chrome is definitely "non-free" software, and why, IMO, it should not be installed on the ISO.  I'm pretty sure this is true of Chromium as well, when you read the fine print.

Iceweasel is/was "free"!  As in, free software, or free beer...   ;)
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 10, 2015, 04:33:39 AM
^ Thanks for that incredible research and intel Jedi... There is no one better at digging

There is a standard tool for checking for non-free packages and it is a default standard on VSIDO called vrms
 
I have done everything I can to keep VSIDO as compliant as RMS would desire but it is all but impossible to do so ...

Here is the list of non-free installed on a brand new install of the latest ISO... you will see that 99.9 percent of these 14 files are just to get those pesky wifi's to work OOTB

Code: [Select]
vrms
               Non-free packages installed on vsido

amd64-microcode                     Processor microcode firmware for AMD CPUs
firmware-atheros                    Binary firmware for Atheros wireless cards
firmware-brcm80211                  Binary firmware for Broadcom 802.11 wireless cards
firmware-ipw2x00                    Binary firmware for Intel Pro Wireless 2100, 2200 and
firmware-iwlwifi                    Binary firmware for Intel Wireless cards
firmware-linux                      Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kerne
firmware-linux-nonfree              Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kerne
firmware-ralink                     Binary firmware for Ralink wireless cards
firmware-realtek                    Binary firmware for Realtek wired and wireless network
intel-microcode                     Processor microcode firmware for Intel CPUs
unrar                               Unarchiver for .rar files (non-free version)
w64codecs                           win64 binary codecs

                Contrib packages installed on vsido

b43-fwcutter                        utility for extracting Broadcom 43xx firmware
firmware-b43-installer              firmware installer for the b43 driver
firmware-b43legacy-installer        firmware installer for the b43legacy driver
iucode-tool                         Intel processor microcode tool

  12 non-free packages, 0.9% of 1337 installed packages.
  4 contrib packages, 0.3% of 1337 installed packages.

I am happy with these results and stand by the conviction that we are doing the best that we can to make RMS proud, albeit failing
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: jedi on January 10, 2015, 04:47:03 AM
Isn't there an add on for iceweasel/firefox that plays all flash video in HTML5 so that the flash plugin is no longer required? Another option, perhaps?

Edit - yes, the Youtube All HTML5 plugin. I removed flash plugin and installed this add on, YouTube works fine; a bit hit and miss with embedded video on news sites. CPU use returns to pre-video state when it's done playing.

There is also the "Fresh Player Plugin" which also works, and is available now through the web upd8 ppa's.  More on that here > http://www.webupd8.org/2014/05/install-fresh-player-plugin-in-ubuntu.html

Just pretend the 'buntu part isn't there...   :D
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: superwow on January 10, 2015, 06:16:43 AM
-VO-

I happen to like FF and Iceweasel, but, you're right, they do have some issues, especially recently. But since you ask, here's my 2 cents:

1. Chrome is pretty outstanding because it connects 100% to my Googleverse including Hangouts, which I LOVE, and gives me Netflix. BUT, I do not want Chrome to ever be installed default on a linux box. Google is ... questionable ... in that way that it is ... questionable. So, Chrome install should 100% be user choice.

2. Chromium is pretty outstanding too. Again, the Google glob applies. But it is a better default choice than Chrome.

3. Opera is great, but also a giant proprietary glob.

4. My vote and the background behind it. I love this whole linux experience. It has really caused me to become fascinated with computing. And each distro does it a little differently. I tend to like the bleeding edge distros with the least bloat. And once I get on the distro I masochistically try NOT to install anything I don't need and do it all the way the minimal distro does it. You may know of my recent troubles with VSIDO and my corrupted apt that snowballed. I then hopped on GRML for a while (it is a great resource for system recovery, and a bit like a candy shop) but eventually installed a minimal Debian with some GRML, #!, bbq, & VSIDO configs. I have intentionally not installed an extra gui based browser and have found my brain pleasantly exploded by the simplicity of terminal browsers like w3m and elinks. W3m works better in xterm and framebuffer terminals (has a right click menu in framebuffer terminals), though if you prefer a javascript enabled terminal browser, maybe elinks is better. So I say leave a distro related choice to either your personal needs, VastOne, or the Debian default of w3m. One caveat though (or two), add the Debian menu to the default VSIDO Fluxbox menu so that the app list is automatically generated. That way, a "Network > web browsing" item comes up and w3m is there, and will be opened by  the terminal (you can configure it to open in xterm, which allows a right click menu, unlike other fuller featured terminals like lxterminal or roxterm). Or, simply add xterm calling w3m or whatever terminal browser directly to the fluxbox menu. The menu item will inform unfamiliar new users.

Btw, GRML is another fluxbox distro, but they don't have a gui browser and each time w3m is called, it goes to a tutorial page on how to use it.

Beyond that, I am betting user who have wandered to VSIDO knows a bit about apt-get and can choose for themselves.
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: Digit on January 10, 2015, 07:46:29 AM
i've had an uneasy relationship with firefox for years, even since before their major versioning acceleration.  even ended up getting installed on a minimal system i had kept clean n minimal for over a year.   but for the iso, great, get rid.

midori's maybe the obvious choice (edit: and a worthy one at that ~ it seems to keep improving as the years go by), though i wonder if xombrero got considered.  (((or even dwb)?)).  quite plush, low-bloat (afaik), nice to use n grow with, and not too weird to begin with (which of course matters as the browser on the iso.)

so... this cd i hold in my hand is the last vsido to have fatfox.   :)  feels momentous n historic.

i know after a fresh vsido install i'll end up inevitably installing firefox myself, to varying degrees of reluctance, just as i would from any ground-up install from scratch i do myself, but glad to see this decision made. :)
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 11, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
@Digit and superwow... thanks for the excellent feedback, I appreciate it

Edit - yes, the Youtube All HTML5 plugin. I removed flash plugin and installed this add on, YouTube works fine; a bit hit and miss with embedded video on news sites. CPU use returns to pre-video state when it's done playing.

I have used this and like this option... It is IMO the best solution forward with little change to the footprint that is VSIDO now

It seems to work for all sites except those that specifically require adobe flash... I can live with that
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: hakerdefo on January 11, 2015, 08:37:38 AM
File-manager, Browser, and Multimedia player are the things that leave the biggest impression on a new user trying out any linux distribution in live environment. I'm not talking about geeks and experienced users. I'm talking about normal human beings. And if I'm not mistaken VSIDO tag-line used to be "SID for human-beings.".
Honestly there are no real alternatives to Firefox-Derivatives, Chrome-Derivatives on linux. Opera now doesn't ship 32 bit version for linux and they have no plans of releasing a 32 bit version for linux.
Midori is only good for casual browsing and is prone to lock-ups and crashes. Only good alternatives I can think of are, SeaMonkey & QupZilla.
SeaMonkey is built on Mozilla code but believe me it is a different beast from Firefox-Iceweasel. It also includes email & newsgroup client, web feed reader, HTML editor, IRC chat and web development tools.
SeaMonkey (http://www.seamonkey-project.org/)

QupZilla is built using Qt but you won't have to worry about Qt dependencies since SMPlayer would have already fetch them. It's a young project but it is quite stable.
QupZilla (http://www.qupzilla.com/)

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on January 11, 2015, 05:36:12 PM
^ Thanks for that intel hakerdefo

I have decided to go the simplest route and stay as true to Debian and VSIDO as we have always been..  The libflashplayer.so file was an add on I implemented into VSIDO to make sure flash worked for all, which was the complete opposite of Debian who provides nothing for Flash..

I am going to go right down the middle with this now and provide the Youtube All HTML5 plugin which works flawlessly on Iceweasel for Youtube and most all flash sites

The exceptions are the sites (Facebook) who are completely partnered with Adobe and Microsoft to keep this a flash world

One thing of note, I hate Apple just because... But they have NEVER relied on flash or Adobe at all and they have handled it quite well on their devices

The next ISO will have libflashplayer.so removed and the Youtube All HTML5 plugin installed... unless someone can tell me another solution or convince me another way

Thank you all for your participation in this discussion
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: seppalta on January 19, 2015, 03:26:58 AM
I've used Maxthon (http://www.maxthon.com/), webkit and trident based, for a few months now.  Never crashed, has great features and plays everything that I have tried.  Tried Midori several times in the past, and always dumped it because it regularly crashed.   
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: VastOne on March 03, 2015, 10:59:27 PM
25 days have passed since I shit-canned the adobe flash plugin...

I have not had to reboot since

And this is the dev/build machine

Profit!
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: Digit on March 04, 2015, 07:13:30 AM
just as i start getting dwb configured nice n comfy, i embark on an adventure with conkeror.

... yeah, make conkeror the default browser.   
[deadpan serious face]
Title: Re: Iceweasel Replacement or complete removal
Post by: Snap on March 04, 2015, 08:03:32 AM
Conkeror? Please, report back. It seems (or at least this has been my own experience) that at this point living without flash webkit browsers are better options than the Mozilla stuff. But I'm all ears.