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VSIDO Community => I've Got a Life => Topic started by: hakerdefo on June 09, 2017, 07:14:12 PM

Title: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 09, 2017, 07:14:12 PM
Recently I introduced a friend to the world of classic rock music. For someone who is born in the mid nineties, Hip-Hop naturally is what he has been listening to and is familiar with. Classic rock and it's artists are a new thing for him. Yesterday he asked me a question and honestly I didn't have any answer to it! He asked me why U.S., the birth place of Rock-n-Roll, failed to produce what can be called the biggest band in the world? The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Queen were/are British, AC/DC are from the land down-under and U2 are from Ireland.
There have been great bands from U.S. like The Allman Brothers band, Aerosmith, The Beach boys, The CCR, The Doors, The Eagles, The Jimi Hendrix experience, R.E.M and many many others. But apart from R.E.M in the early nineties (when they rivaled U2 for the title of biggest band in the world), none of the other American band could have claimed to be the biggest band in the world! Why is that?
Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: VastOne on June 09, 2017, 09:42:31 PM
Very interesting question and I think I might have an answer.. All the bands you listed, the very last thing that comes to mind for me is where they are from.. Of course in the back of my mind I know where they all originated from, but it is not a thought.. I believe it is because great music transcends geography, race, color, creed, religion etc etc... In the late 60's and 70's when a lot of those bands made their mark, the sales of most of their music was here in the USA and I think the concerts were bigger here.. It was how they were promoted ... so even though we got the best imported music ever, the US just loved the music man... :D

I can list several people (Elvis, Cash, Delta Blues legends, Memphis Blues legends) who brought all those bands you listed their early chops and showmanship.. so even though there may not be any great American Bands, I would say the genesis of most of Rock and Country and Rap all started here..

My son (35 and a 90's child) on the other hand would argue vehemently that the Foo Fighters are as good as anyone and looking at their output, sales, concerts and following, I would have to agree with him.. though I do not like them as much as he does...  And Aerosmith and Metallica also are humongous

Great thread hakerdefo.. I am looking forward to others thoughts

Also

Lynard Skynard
The Eagles (IMO one of the top 3 of all time)
Fleetwood Mac
Jimi Hendrix
Pearl Jam

There is a LOT of great US bands
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 10, 2017, 05:33:29 PM
@VastOne Great answer there!
Personally I'm a huge huge fan of many great American bands. What made the question interesting was the fact that there came many many great bands from U.S. and as you rightly pointed out U.S. was the biggest market for the music, both recorded and live, yet not many American bands succeeded on the scales of Beatles, Stones, Zeppelins and Floyds!

Quote
...great music transcends geography, race, color, creed, religion...
So very true!

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: PackRat on June 10, 2017, 05:44:27 PM
...none of the other American band could have claimed to be the biggest band in the world! Why is that?

Depends on how you want to define that. They probably can't compete in record sales and airplay, but I know a lot - and I mean a lot - of people that consider The Greatful Dead the greatest band ever, and although not a band, Bob Dylan the greatest songwriter ever. So the criteria is subjective and dependant on what's sound is trendy and who's handling the promotion.

Take a look at this lineup  (http://www.woodstockstory.com/bandsperformerssetsplaylists1969.html) and you'll see a lot of US and British bands.

As vastone says, the music transcends geography etc ... Or, in other words:

Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: PackRat on June 10, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
And in 1978 these guys hit the scene -  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCALsTTA1Rk) and pretty much changed the trajectory of Rock and Roll.
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 10, 2017, 05:54:39 PM
Quote
...My son (35 and a 90's child) on the other hand would argue vehemently that the Foo Fighters are as good as anyone and looking at their output, sales, concerts and following, I would have to agree with him.. though I do not like them as much as he does...
I'm of your son's age but on this one I'm with you  ;)
Foo Fighters and Dave Grohl's earlier band Nirvana are HUGE. I like a few of their songs as well, but in my personal opinion, they come no way close to some of the great bands mentioned in this thread!
For me R.E.M were the biggest and the best band of 90's. Out of Time (1991), Automatic for the People (1992), Monster (1994), New Adventures in Hi-Fi (1996) are easily among the greatest rock music albums of not only 90's but of all time.
As far as the bands that began their career in 90's, my personal favorites are Oasis.
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 10, 2017, 06:11:02 PM
@PackRat
Quote
...Depends on how you want to define that...
The question is about being the biggest band (combination of record sales, chart positions, concert audience numbers) in the world, not the greatest  :)
Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 10, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
And in 1978 these guys hit the scene -  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCALsTTA1Rk) and pretty much changed the trajectory of Rock and Roll.
Didn't Clapton, Page, Hendrix, Blackmore do everything there was to do way before Eddie Van Halen?
Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 10, 2017, 06:27:44 PM
Just to make the thread more interesting and intriguing,
The top three biggest solo acts in the pop music history are,
Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson and Madonna.
All of them are Americans!
Interesting, ain't it?!?

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: VastOne on June 11, 2017, 01:35:38 AM
^ This is an interesting discussion.. As pointed out the Grateful Dead may be the most successful band ever .. they will continue to get followers for years and years... and their success has little to do with sales.. they are just flat out cool

The Eagles has sold as many albums as anyone with possibly only Pink Floyd having more.. Both of these bands have one very unique thing in common that sets them apart... (2 actually) The one thing is they sound just as good live as on the album.. they are perfectionists when it comes to this.. the 2nd thing is members.. with 2 very notable exceptions (felder with the Eagles, Waters with Pink Floyd) they have been the exact same band.. In Pink Floyds case the argument was that Gilmour was the music to Waters soul and the music lived on.. With the Eagles, they replaced Felder with Joe Walsh .. W O W...

So in my humble opinion it is these two bands who stand apart globally and like the Grateful Dead will go on and on as each new generation discovers each Classic Rock Albums ...

Funny thing hakerdefo.. I respect the heck out of R.E.M. but see them like another Foo Fighters.. great but not my cup of tea..

Cheers
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: PackRat on June 11, 2017, 07:19:45 PM
And in 1978 these guys hit the scene -  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCALsTTA1Rk) and pretty much changed the trajectory of Rock and Roll.
Didn't Clapton, Page, Hendrix, Blackmore do everything there was to do way before Eddie Van Halen?
Cheers!!!

No musician has done that. Every great musician has their own style - add Lou Reed, Frank Zappa, and Syd Barrett (amongst others) to your list - and stand on the shoulders of those that came before them. Nobody was doing what Van Halen (the band, as well as Eddie) was doing in '78; and I suspect nobody was doing what Cream was doing in 1966 or Pink Floyd in 1967. It's the innovation that sets the band apart and sets the trend(s) for those that follow. Van Halen's sound and overall persona set the stage for the '80's heavy metal and hair bands (with some David Bowie glam-rock thrown in) IMO.

And of course, how much does David Lee Roth owe to Berry, Presley, and Jagger who came before him?
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: VastOne on June 11, 2017, 08:39:34 PM
Eddie is the grandfather of tap style lead and bends that screeched that brought in a new generation..  Van Halen is a top tiered band of all time

Mick Jagger as best showman ever.. and David Lee right behind him IMO
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: riV on June 12, 2017, 05:13:20 AM
good one hakerdefo.  love to chat music.  This has caused me to revisit the biography of Roy Orbison. 
the genre of "classic " rock is not where the best music is heard.  in defense of numbers America has blues, Jazz, east, north, south, west, central, +sounds from bordering countries and influxing amalgam of backgrounds; that's spread thinly to support a lot more music, and groups, than all the british isles.
Respectfully
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 13, 2017, 08:01:30 PM
@VastOne & @PackRat No offense on Van Halen intended!
It is a band I've not listened-to that much. MTV India used to play "Jump" a lot in the late nineties and sadly that is a song my mind associates with Van Halen  :'(
@VastOne Some folks put Freddie Mercury very high when it's come to showman or the band leader.
@VastOne R.E.M are one of my favorites so I might be a bit biased here but in the early nineties (1991-1994) they released three albums whose combined sales figure is about 45 millions. They were the biggest band in the world in the first half of the nineties! And these three albums often find their places (worthy) in the best albums of all-time lists  8)
@riV Listen to the Traveling Wilburys Vol.1. Roy at his finest on many of the songs plus a great album too  8)

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: PackRat on June 13, 2017, 11:32:45 PM
@VastOne & @PackRat No offense on Van Halen intended!
@riV Listen to the Traveling Wilburys Vol.1. Roy at his finest on many of the songs plus a great album too  8)

Cheers!!!

None taken.

Traveling Wilburys - the band that saved Tom Petty IMO. He was a solid musician and bankable recording artist before that, but after being in that band, he took his music to a new level. I read an article in an industry magazine (not Rolling Stone) that Bob Dylan and Roy Orbinson sat down with Petty and a heart-to-heart talk with the young star. Did him a world of good if that's true.
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 14, 2017, 06:54:11 PM
@PackRat I've always liked Tom Petty & the Heart breaker's music. Mike Cambell is an under-rated guitarist IMO.
Traveling Wilburys Vol.1 is one of my all-time favorite!
Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: riV on June 21, 2017, 12:30:20 AM
hello hakerdefo and everyone 
glad You liked the Roy Orbison mention.  can you appreciate Chet Atkins. 
Candlebox one of the last great rock sounds. American country music genre has more rock now than other genres.  Does St.Vincent count? Thoughts of rock bands date back over fifty years. David Byrne and Fred Schneider and Dan Hicks and Ella Fitzgerald carried-on as we shared listening with Gershwin and Piazzolla while Rush, Focus, Markusfeld, PFM Cook, Kraftwerk straddle the argument.  How far back are we to go? to the Doobie Bros. or Johnny Winter and Edgar Winter or the Allman Bros. or the Mills Bros.?  The Marx Bros. each played an instrument.  Remember that  The blues had a baby and they called it rock and roll; that takes us way back to where some listeners got lost on staying with the blues when rock forked.  We who like it all still lump the funk together without sorting out the rock [or its country of origin. RoyOrbison did a British-American collaboration without bias.]  Maybe i was paying to see SonnyTerry and BrownieMcGhee or Basia when i could have been growing the economics of American rock bands. Regionalizing sound for popularity must have worked to fracture the market in America where each city, each hotel, dining hall, and stage competed for a different sound; not the same sound. America had more television variety than Britain?  Hollywood was the target though they learned to do it themselves.  Hollywood was more diversity and spreading-out thinly.  We despaired for more rock in the seventies/ eighties and turned to "import" albums in the record bins or local musicians like Carlos Santana and Les Dudek and Pantera.  How many musicians in Brand X were American?  Jazz musicians flowing into NewYork were more interesting than much of the rock music.   America had Boston and Kansas while AlanParsons Project, Supertramp flooded the charts. Jon Anderson is a favorite. Maybe it is because the British stuff is just really good.  LoneStar was better than LedZeppelin, but you didn't hear about LoneStar. The shocking thing is to look up a old name like 10,00 maniacs, MoseAllison, steelyDan , Jose Feliciano, etc. and find they are still in music.  Local music is where to find rock now. After a life of performing rock drums or harmonica there are links online to older accomplished and decorated musicians still performing.  Fresh Rock is not a part of this new century. The Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival is where to hear some rock.  Got some rock posters for you. www.steelydan.com/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmSPCOby-1A
"Little Martha" Duane Allman

In the past century I was allowed access to all of the recordings from around the world that poured into a independent rock radio station. It was a lot of records you never heard. More than Twenty  years of pre-1990 rock that most were never played on the radio.  I listened to all.  The owner let me keep any I wished to have. There was one dj that kept two of each.  That is too many records when it is time to move. 
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on June 21, 2017, 06:31:34 PM
Hi there riV,
Do you still have those records?

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: riV on June 28, 2017, 11:14:47 PM
hakerdefo asks riV, "Do you still have those records?"
hello hakerdefo 
all but one out for lend that was not returned.   frown.   
Considered a rare opportunity and a grand challenge It took years to get the needle down onto all those unknown recordings.  I took possession of just a handful.  Listening to all that did make me wiser regarding the proliferative promotional recordings.  It meant there was another person like myself every three-hundred miles around the globe at another radio station, record store, or library.  The large base of samples did not aid to explain popularity; then or now.  You got me,,, i cannot say why. How [were] are the recordings organized at your local store?  What does RollingStone, billboard, and mTv have to say about your countries in competition for rock question?  what is Your answer, hakerdefo? 
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: hakerdefo on July 01, 2017, 08:25:54 AM
Hi there riV,
I can understand that maintaining old records is not an easy task. I asked because I wanted to suggest you to upload those records to some cloud storage service (Mega for example), so that others can enjoy them too. But since you no longer have those records  :(
Local music stores in India have become endangered species since the advent of MP3 and on-line piracy  :(
My town used to have 5-6 music stores a few years back, now there is not a single one left  :(
Music scene in India is dominated by music from the movies. Almost every movie made in India is a musical  :o
Every other music including Rock music remains niche  :(
Interestingly the music from the movies include every possible genre of music from around the world  ???

Here is a rock-n-roll song from an old movie,


Cheers!!!
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: riV on July 02, 2017, 05:49:37 AM
hello hakerdefo and hello everyone
RockyHorrorPictureShow is a rock musical. right?
while here we listened to Ravi Shankar, John McLaughlin, and Carlos Santana' Caravanserai.
youtube.com/watch?v=zVqvd6mhat8
Ravi Shankar. 
American cartoons had wonderful music. 
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: riV on July 17, 2017, 10:46:39 PM
hello hakerdefo and everyone
Ear to the music and Eye on the country thanks to you.
Paul McCartney tells a story that his first gig was an american song:
youtube.com/watch?v=kQC8r1QA2hk
Steve Howe & Alvin Lee play american:
youtube.com/watch?v=Zryu954mzRY
Title: Re: A rock music question to my American friends
Post by: riV on February 22, 2018, 11:01:41 AM

hello hakerdefo


It is a misnomer to dub computer hardware "Memory", because a designer can explain or interpret how it functions.  Human memory cannot be explained.  I do appreciate the addition of "random access."
Experienced a random access today:
The absence of the LPs had me searching for a band name i did not find.  I had remembered Kilimanjaro. for years. until today.  The word kittyhawk came to mind. Oh. asked myself to what is that word connected. Why did I just mentally see that word.?  funny how the mind works.  Kittyhawk. That Band!   Where did that come from? 
Researching gave result kittyhawkgroup d o t c o m. 
I was introduced to the band a night Kittyhawk was the opener for The Dixie Dregs.[later, The Dregs.]  Was my first knowledge of the Chapman Stick.  As many as three participants in Kittyhawk play the stick and add guitar, drums, lyricon, saxophone, cello.  Kilimanjaro is a song title. 
KingCrimson includes the Stick. 


Also found a cd of a disconnected favorite LP.  rerelease of two albums by Lone Star.  cd BGO Records number BGOCD618. The band came out of Wales in May 1975.  That is one more for the british side, because it is my favorite music.  The cd has a great booklet of history, lyrics, two albums "Lone Star" and "Firing On All Six" , jacket does not have the original album numbers.  More on this a different day. 


The unseen LPs are on the move this week to a different storage location.  and today "Just listened to..." Kittyhawk.