VSIDO systemd and upstart discussion

[VastOne]

I've moved everything back to sysVinit and spacefm-gtk and removed lightdm. Once I get the login/logout issues resolved I will release new ISO's

[zbreaker]

Nice....looking forward to kicking the tires and taking it for a spin

[jeffreyC]

More reason to suspect their motives:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/7/254

Political/corporate takeover tactics in open source?

[zbreaker]

 

Sad indeed.

[statmonkey]

More reason to suspect their motives:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/7/254

Political/corporate takeover tactics in open source?

Gosh, I wish I found this surprising or shocking.

 

We knew that would happen. Accommodations are only a temporary
stratagem with the systemd people. They are out to conquer.

Yep, we have been discussing that in here for months. 

Thanks for the post btw

[VastOne]

Have you confirmed this?

A few days ago the Debian administration ruled out any use of a systemd "substitute" (cancelling its own systemd-shim project for desktop users) and now requires systemd whole hog

I am simply trying to parse through FUD and non FUD. The vitriol over this issue is still so rampant that it is impossible to read anything without questioning it

[ozitraveller]

I came across these 2 posts the other day, and in light of the current discussion I'm puzzled.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2014/10/msg00037.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2014/10/msg00039.html

[statmonkey]

It's always good to question everything.  That said, I apologize for my comments, they serve no purpose other than my own venting.  If we are going to look for a smoking gun on the intentions of the systemd crowd that is going to be a long search.  In the end all that really matters is research was done, pluses and minuses laid out and a decision made.  It was the right decision.  I don't think it is realistic to think that you can have a debian sid distro that uses anything other than systemd. 

Sometimes you have to just pick yourself up off the ground, wipe your mouth and walk away.  In this particular case I think getting and continuing to follow new information is good, it just is unnecessary for there to be cheerleading/grave dancing like I did, even if it is unintentional.  This is a systemd distro and I heartily accept that.  I will do a better job of keeping my I told you so's and TD celebrations to myself. 

There is a lot of fud and emotions are running high for all the reasons we have discussed. Lennart has said several times that he did not think there could be a compromise on what systemd's functions and processes it got involved in were, nor did he think there could really be alternatives once started on the systemd path. IIRC his reasoning was that systemd was so far along and so tightly integrated to several parts of debian that he did not think that would allow a parallel alternative system that would long term work for debian.  He also said that people were welcome to try but in the end it would be a waste of time.  I am not sure where that was but I believe it was in one of the conference videos when the subject of dual development came up and also in one of the reddit threads he started.  It makes some sense if you look at how systemd works and all that it pulls in/we have seen changes in depends already and I don't think that any of this is a surprise.  Again, I am only mentioning this in an effort to clear fact from fiction.  In the end the decision is what matters and you move forward.

[VastOne]

I am sorry statmonkey if it was me who pushed you into thinking that you had to respond in that way. I was really serious in that I could not find any links anywhere that led to where that information came from and was just trying to get it.

I do appreciate your feedback and how candid you always are, thanks mate.

[statmonkey]

Nobody pushed me into thinking anything.  I thought about what I wrote yesterday and realized the futility of it, then commented on what I had come to realize, I just will try to do better.  You are either a part of the solution or the problem and whining over the results does not add value.  I don't want to be a source of discord in this community or a pot stirrer.

I am being completely sincere - questioning everything is good!  Your questions regarding where this came from and whether it even has relevance is good.  I have not searched for the context of the email because I just don't think there is any point.  I do however believe that it is not a surprise and is exactly what they have already said they would do (throwing out the conspiratorial plot to infiltrate debian with redhat goons), that once you go systemd that is it there is no going back.  I believe that the upstart people said exactly the same thing about their system.

You have nothing to apologize for.  Moving on.

[jedi]

VSIDO is a systemd distro, as it is based on Debian's SID branch, and Debian adopted systemd as it's init of choice..
[Edit,snip,snip]

Someone should point out that the LKML.org mail list isn't  the best source of correct information on the interwebs.  I have not been able to find one scintilla of that link having any merit or information based in factual info.  Not one.  I could look harder, but really, what is the point?  I am glad that jeffreyC posted it here.  It proves to me that we have a very engaged community here at VSIDO.org.

I, as well as many other Linux users, have continuously changed our minds on the issue of systemd for a long time.

BUT

Well, there is no but...

Had a buddy stop by, and can't remember what I was gonna say.  Probably important to the future of systemd too!
I will admit surprise at Mr. Torvalds views on systemd and the Un*x philosophy.  If anything, he is totally ambivalent about it all.  Check it out from his interview here!
Other cool 'Torvalds' interviews can be found using google's search feature!   

[statmonkey]

What?  Google has a search feature?? Who knew

I Really enjoyed that Linus interview thank you Jedi.  Probably would not have taken the time without you posting it.  I am reading the Lennart file system one now and holding my breath.  I do disagree with a few of Linus' comments on systemd (the horror!) but overall interesting.  I can't say it changed my outlook, just interesting.

The Lennart article is on packaging, filesystems, etc and is here: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html if anyone is interested

[jeffreyC]

Things I'm reading have me increasingly concerned about systemd;
Seems that it is planned to take over package management, and become the underlying process for the terminal.

WhatDaFuq does an init system need to get involved in doing all that for?

The end result will be that ALL Linux distros will become the same.

Aren't these devs employed by the same company that employs the Gnome3 devs who work so diligently to eliminate all deviation from "the brand" and talk of creating the GnomeOS.
Interestingly Gnome3 has systemd as a dependency.

Edit: this was written before I read statmonkey's post about systemd taking over how the file system works:
http://vsido.org/index.php?topic=826.msg9694#msg9694

[PackRat]

Bit of a puff-ball interview, but some interesting comments.