VSIDO systemd and upstart discussion

[VastOne]

Systemd is the winner of the vote, and within hours Ian Jackson shows his colors asking for the chair to resign...

Deposing the chairman of the Technical Committee - Are you kidding me Ian Jackson?

This has been an incredible stupid and careless process which IMO gives Debian a massive black eye

And then this? Really really Childish!

[ozitraveller]

  I just don't know where to look! Embarrassing!

[jedi]

Debian  welcome to the surreal...

[jeffreyC]

Ubuntu is moving to systemd, since Debian has decided to;

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316

[VastOne]

^ that is stunning news..

I expected this but not this fast...

WOW!

Thanks for posting that

[tanstaafl]

I'd really like to thank everyone who participated in this thread, it has been the most rational discussion of the merits of systemd I've read since a couple of really bad ones on the gentoo list a while back, where there are/were many people who are rabidly against systemd.

I must say that this discussion has caused me to rethink my admittedly ignorant opposition, which was based solely on the opinions of others far more knowledgeable on the technical merits than I.

One of the main reasons I've been against systemd is simple: ianap (I am not a programmer, and my shell scripting skills are rudimentary at best, and would probably send most into fits of hysteria or running away screaming), I've seen many comments about how complex systemd is and that you need to be a skilled programmer to even consider using it. Heck, I don't even really understand openrc/udev, but at least I've never run into an unbootable system situation that required me to do any debugging after a system update.

I would really like to see a similar discussion comparing the pros/cons of systemd and openrc now.

Anyway - thanks again to all, now I guess its time to think about getting my hands dirty...

Charles

[VastOne]

Hi Charles and welcome to VSIDO, glad to have you...

I have a question that may or may not apply... Did you ever worry about anything with sysvinit and your setup?  And if no, why not?  Most likely because it just worked and you did not need to worry

Systemd as an init is pretty much the same... it just works and stays out of the way, not complex at all... and like with sysvinit, I have never had to change anything at all on all of my scripts, build functions, designs, layouts or anything to use systemd

I dropped it in and it works

[tanstaafl]

Hi Charles and welcome to VSIDO, glad to have you...

Thanks, glad to be here...

I have a question that may or may not apply... Did you ever worry about anything with sysvinit and your setup?  And if no, why not?  Most likely because it just worked and you did not need to worry

Bingo...

Systemd as an init is pretty much the same... it just works and stays out of the way, not complex at all... and like with sysvinit, I have never had to change anything at all on all of my scripts, build functions, designs, layouts or anything to use systemd

I dropped it in and it works

Yeah, I guess the only real major thing is to wait until all of the packages (I'm still a gentoo user, - been considering  switch to something else, but in no hurry) I need and use are fully supported (unit files). From what I've been reading gentoo is almost there already, and many are already using systemd, but I just don't have the skills (or the time to learn how) to debug these things myself.

Anyway, I feel much better about the eventuality now, thanks in no small part to this thread.

Thanks again, and for the welcome...

[zbreaker]

To re-open an old topic.......

As some of you may or may not know, I am also a Slackware devotee. Eric Hameleers, one of the Slackware "team" posted this in his blog regarding systemd...an interesting read. Eric is btw a really primo guy who provides many cutting edge packages for the Slackware community. Yes, and I still lub VSIDO 

http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/on-lkml-an-open-letter-to-the-linux-world/

[VastOne]

Thanks for the link and subsequent reads zbreaker...  I read through them and it seems to me that there are still quite a few people who seem to just spew hate towards Pottering and that development team... It all seems personal to me and there is never really any substance other than "they are taking away my freedom" without facts.  I get that argument but even the worst developers can and do get jobs done that have benefited all of us.  I am not defending anyone, I just do not get all the hype

[jeffreyC]

The argument that systemd is over complicated and controls too many other things does have some merit in relation to the classic *nix tradition of keeping it small and doing one thing well.

The personalities involved do bring some on themselves with their abrasive arrogance and attitude i.e. they cause problems and it is up to everyone else to fix it by changing their software, including the kernel devs.

I don't know Linus personally and even I know that won't fly.

[jeffreyC]

"Interesting" things going on with the kernel devs and systemd devs:

https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/K7ijdmxJ8PF

https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/415

Oops, that is older than I thought 

[VastOne]

^ Still and all a very interesting read... I am worried if all the crud and hate around systemd is worth it anymore and would seriously consider viable alternatives now

[zbreaker]

Food for thought indeed.

[VastOne]

I like this more adult review and discussion ...

So much hyperbole and drama and most of it created by pure hatred and vitriol that it is scary and detrimental to FOSS IMO