(SOLVED) systemd systemd-sysv and live-config and sysvinit

[VastOne]

Due to the bullshit of debian and the live-installer, systemd-sysv cannot be a part of the build... If I install systemd-sysv, live-config is removed and the livecd is then not bootable

I can solve it one of two ways in the install... I can assume everyone is online and add an apt-get update and apt-get -y install systemd-sysv during the grub install

Or I can package each flavor of the x32 or x64 debs as part of the build and dpkg -i  install them during the same process

I have already setup the first method, setting up and testing the second is very easy but I would also have to make sure the most current.deb file is always there...

Opinions?

Also, anything we want to cut from the build ISO (or any new apps) and add during install can be handled this same way.. So if you have any suggestions, let it rip

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This has been resolved by installing live-config-systemd which removed live-config-sysvinit and due to that I could remove every bit of sysvinit and install systemd-sysv

[PackRat]

What does systemd-sysv provide? Is it required?

I guess what I'm driving at is - have you reached a point where VSIDO needs to be re-built from scratch.

[zbreaker]

Indeed, I've been having headaches with VSIDO of late and residing back in Slackware land (regrettably). As most of the members here dwarf my 'nix expertise I will rely on the majority.

[VastOne]

systemd-sysv is what is needed to guarantee that you are booting to and using systemd and the systemctl toolset

Now that grub has a fallback option for sysvinit, IT gets selected and loaded over systemd when systemd-sysv is not installed. There is no easy way to make systemd the default in grub

More BS from the devs who are not colluding...

[VastOne]

Also, by implementing systemd-sysv this way, sysvinit is completely removed along with the live-build crap that is not needed once VSIDO is installed (the addition of systemd-sysv and removal of sysvinit and live-config is done after the install is completed)

I am not at a point where I believe VSIDO needs a rebuild, although a revamp of the remastersys installer is something I may look into and use chroot options more and less of a build in the ISO's

Something to ponder

[VastOne]

Just to be clear, live-config is what is needed for the livecd session for an install, it handles all of the user info and setup (debian basics) that these installation scripts depend on

[PackRat]

More BS from the devs who are not colluding...

maybe they should be colluding on a regular basis so that the glove fits properly on the hand. 

with this option -

[snip] .. add an apt-get update and apt-get -y install systemd-sysv during the grub install

what is actually going on under the hood? Are you making the switch to systemd during the install?

I'm connected to the internet when I install, so whichever option provides the best chance of a successful install would be the way to go.

As far as removing some apps, what doesn't work with the change to systemd? Ceni appears to be broken, d-feet wasn't working, I don't know about bum, disk manager still works though; any other utilities deprecated now? I don't see a reason to have the tea text editor installed - does it do something special medit can't?

[VastOne]

More BS from the devs who are not colluding...

maybe they should be colluding on a regular basis so that the glove fits properly on the hand. 

with this option -

[snip] .. add an apt-get update and apt-get -y install systemd-sysv during the grub install

what is actually going on under the hood? Are you making the switch to systemd during the install?

I'm connected to the internet when I install, so whichever option provides the best chance of a successful install would be the way to go.

Here is what is happening... live-config needs sysvinit-core installed so that you can live-boot a livecd session.  This is the debian tools that sets up the user on the install

When you install live-config and sysvinit-core, systemd-sysv is removed and vice versa if you install systemd-sysv then sysvinit-core and live-config is removed.  A catch 22 for me with the ISO builds and VSIDO install methodology

grub now has a fall back option to go to sysvinit in case systemd is not installed.  It goes to sysvinit by default IF systemd-sysv is not installed

Without systemd-sysv and booting natively to systemd, users lose the ability to use systemctl.  I believe you have helped users here on the forum with this very issue

All I am doing with the following is taking care of what should be on the install and removing what should not be there

Under the hood this is what is going on as the last steps of the installation when grub is installed and setup and the installation is completed

Code Select Expand

#!/bin/bash
chroot /TARGET grub-install --force --no-floppy "$GRUBLOC"
chroot /TARGET update-grub
chroot /TARGET apt-get update > /dev/null 2>&1
chroot /TARGET apt-get -y install systemd-sysv > /dev/null 2>&1
exit 0

[PackRat]

That's cool; some good information there.

Without systemd-sysv and booting natively to systemd, users lose the ability to use systemctl.  I believe you have helped users here on the forum with this very issue

that's what got me wondering about what happens under the hood. As I recall, several files get uninstalled - like the systemd-shim - when systemd-sysv gets installed.

But looks like you tested this method and are getting good, functional installs.

Based on this - weekly builds of debian testing cd image - - you may not be the only one having some issues. No successful build since mid-May.

[VastOne]

These are the files removed by a systemd-sysv install (and what is needed for the livecd)

Code Select Expand

live-config live-config-sysvinit sysvinit-core

I believe sysvinit-shim was needed as a workaround for the refracta installer, it was never something I included in VSIDO

Bottom line is the life of sysvinit is over... can we just let the damn thing die and move on? This is my question to Daniel Baumann and the live-config team

[PackRat]

That would be a good question.

To repeat myself, I am always connected to the internet when I install so your option #1 would work for me. Seems like a clean way to get grub set up,

[VastOne]

Thanks RatMan        

[jedi]

I would say that for the time being, you should leave things as they are.  I find it "INCONCEIVABLE" that everyone is not on-line all the time!    As it stands right now, it doesn't appear that there is an 'easy' solution.  Add the systemd-sysv and no more liveCD boot.  Not acceptable!    The live-config team should take off the ass-hats and catch up with the rest of Debian in fully supporting systemd.  sysVinit is the past, WE didn't make the decision, they did, so catch up already...

Leave it as is for now.  (my opinion)  It took all of 60 seconds to get systemd-sysv installed which also automagically took care of the grub selections in the boot menu.  Very easy job to do post install for the user.  Weigh that against basically starting from scratch with yet another new installer, (or totally re-writing remastersys again) and the choice is super easy...

Wait, actually, there is no choice!  Until the 'live-config' team can stop relying on sysvinit, anyone using Debian as a base for a distro that wants to be able to have a LiveCD session is at their mercy.  'Tis a "no win" situation...

[VastOne]

I agree with all of the above Jedi but I cannot leave things as they are because of a ridiculous issue the live-config people have with NEEDING sysvinit... In VSIDO, if systemctl is not available then IMO VSIDO is broken or half functional

All I am doing is adding a step to the installation, it is not impeding it in any way nor does it break it.  The way this works is during the very last thing that happens on an install during the grub installation I have added 2 chroot steps to that installs systemd-sysv and in the process removes the live-config and sysvinit shit that is no longer needed (since the installation is over)

My only question was whether or not it was feasible to assume everyone had an Internet connection on an install of VSIDO or to use dpkg to install systemd-sysv. Either way gets the same results I want, VSIDO as a fully functional systemd distro

[VastOne]

I have renamed this thread to

Livecd systemd systemd-sysv and live-config and sysvinit and Internet Connection

in order to give anyone else faced with the multiple complexities of this a chance to learn from it