Author Topic: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement  (Read 18677 times)

jedi

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I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« on: January 14, 2015, 01:14:41 AM »
In regards to this thread > http://vsido.org/index.php?topic=917.0
I got to thinking...
Most of you know what that means.  Here comes the novel...

Linux, PPAPI, and the Browser...  (Originally posted at jedsdesk.com)

In the beginning, was Lynx.  And, it was good.  The time was 1992.  Linux was in it's infancy.  The Internet was becoming more easy to access.  Linux as we know it had reached a milestone.  It was now 1 year old.

I am going to cite some Linux history below to give perspective to why I wrote this article, and further explain my anger at Adobe and Microsoft.

The most popular web server has always been FLOSS since such data has been being collected. For example, Apache is the current #1 web server powering the Internet.  To my knowledge, it has never fell below this statistic.  Contrary to what Microsoft would have you believe, they have never held the number one position.  Ever.  Some current estimates put the number of Internet servers running Linux at or better than 95%.  Microsoft?  About 1%.  Ironically enough, Microsoft's own Azure Cloud services offer "Linux Infrastructure as a Service" (IaaS).

According to the The OSS/FLOSS Numbers Database, Windows NT actually crippled a U.S. Navy Cruiser in 1998.  Almost all of Europe's governments use Linux in some form or fashion, or are in the process of converting existing systems including their educational institutions.  In the U.S. check out the statistics for banks, ATM machines, or mobile devices, or, for that matter, look at the U.S. governments most secretive 3 letter agencies and you'll find they too depend on Linux.  From the NSA, to the CIA, and the Department of Homeland Security.  It is not simply that Linux is free, and the government has run out of money (which they have as we all know seeing how we just passed $18,000,000,000,000 dollars in debt), it is because of the SECURITY.  It is unparalleled in OS history.

Perhaps one of the best papers written regarding OSS/FLOSS, can be found on David Wheeler's site at http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html.  A direct quote from his paper on the site says the following; "More recently, The U.S. Department of Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) has certified Linux distributor Red Hat’s Advanced Server operating system as a “Common Operating Environment” (COE), meaning the server product meets the agency’s software security and interoperability specification".

Lets jump ahead to Feb. 22, 2012.  Adobe announces it will no longer be providing updates to Flash for Linux.  The following month, in March, they released version 11.2, officially saying goodbye to Linux.  At the time, Flash was the most common video rendering software available to users on the Internet.  So, Adobe officially has crawled into bed with Microsoft.  While I am of the belief that Flash has outlived its usefulness, it is still widely used and even required to view some websites.  Facebook for example.

Today Adobe has accepted Google's PPAPI code-named "Pepper".  Chrome is the 'ONLY' browser available that can use the PPAPI.  Mozilla, and most other Linux compliant browsers only support NPAPI.  (the N in NPAPI stands for Netscape, the predecessor of Firefox and Iceweasel)  Mozilla has decided (right from the beginning, and stuck to their guns) that they will not work or develop PPAPI implementation for any Mozilla based browser.

It is well known and has been for a long time that the NPAPI has many security flaws and vulnerabilities.  It is an old API.  The problem here is licensing.  Mozilla is concerned by all of the proprietary code involved in the PPAPI, as well as the absolutely horrible documentation from Google.  Iceweasel uses the GNU/GPL licensing allowing it to be used in Linux distro's that firmly support OSS/FLOSS.  PPAPI will never (IMO) adhere to that license.  Firefox to a lesser degree also uses a type of this licensing that while it is not as open as that of Iceweasel, still allows it to be a part of the OSS project.

By stripping NPAPI support, browsers like Firefox and Iceweasel, not to mention numerous other OSS/FLOSS browsers no longer have the ability to serve up video that will now require the PPAPI.  While hopefully HTML5 and CSS3 will eventually solve this problem, for the foreseeable future, Linux users will be forced to use Google's browsers or simply not be able to watch video on the web.  I know that is a broad statement, and perhaps simplifying the situation to some degree, but in fact, an accurate one no less.  Yes, I know there are wrappers that you can use in place of the NPAPI, however, they are not a total fix.  While the 'Youtube All HTML5' plugin allows the user to watch Youtube videos, it is simply not a solution for other video sites on the Internet.  The same holds true with the 'Fresh Player Plugin' a wrapper that supposedly allows the user to take advantage of the PPAPI.  It is a sketchy solution that the last time I checked, was still in the 'Alpha' stage and barely worked on the sites I tried.

I do not have cable, satellite, nor even an antennae to watch television, I do have Netflix.  The various news outlet sites on the Internet provide me with all the news I care to hear about.  Netflix allows me to watch most popular TV shows.  My two kids have never complained about our situation, and personally I think we are better off as a family without television.  I believe the media's purpose is truly the "dumbing down of society".  Another article for another time.  That being said, I do enjoy watching the occasional show on Netflix.  As a Linux user, up until recently the only way I could do this was through a Virtual Machine installed on my Linux box.  Thanks to Google's Chrome browser this is now no longer the case.  Because of this, I have left Firefox and Iceweasel behind.  I have used Mozilla browsers since the early '90's, going all the way back to when it was Netscape.  I loved Mozilla.

I have tried Chromium, which has a more tolerable license than does Chrome, but still no Netflix support.  While I can freely choose to use Chrome, I loathe the fact that the decision is being made for me.  Google claims to utilize the OSS/FLOSS principles when it comes to their browser licensing, but it is a non-free piece of software.  This entirely rules Chrome out for a lot of the Linux community who adhere strongly to their principles when following the GNU/GPL OSS/FLOSS philosophy.  Alas, I am not so firmly entrenched in my philosophy that I wont use Chrome.  I enjoy video on the web, and have made the change to Chrome.  It is an entirely personal choice, and I am in no way endorsing Chrome.  Yes, I could continue to use a VM, but that is an even worse choice as I was forced to use one of those "other" OS's.

For Linux, and all it's non Google browsers, NPAPI is the past.  For me, this falls into the realm of "Unfair Business Practices/Monopoly" category.  The rest of the browser world should have, at the very least, been allowed the opportunity come up with a palatable solution to the PPAPI.  By not having that opportunity, the entire Linux community is being punished IMO by Google, and by default Adobe and Microsoft.  I believe it was an intentional move on all three companies parts to just that end.  Google has gone so far as to remove any NPAPI supported apps/plugins from the Google Play store.  I find this a remarkable move on the part of Google as their Android OS is a Linux distribution itself.  Of course, it comes with Chrome so for their part, this is all a non-issue.

For the rest of the Linux world, everyone should be raising their voice in anger at this type of practice.  Especially from Google!

 

Apple's iPads and iPhones have never supported Flash.  However Mac's Safari browser, like Microsoft's Internet Explorer, continue to receive updated Flash software from Adobe.  While Linux has been stuck at version 11.2, not so for MS and Apple.  Example below...  (taken directly from the Adobe Flash website)

Adobe Flash Player updates available for OS X on December 12, 2014

Adobe Flash Player updates address a recently identified Adobe Flash Player web plug-in vulnerability.

Huh!

Currently Microsoft and Apple are on version 16.0.0.257.  Adobe stated that security and bug updates would be provided for Linux version 11.2 of the Flash player in Feb. of 2012 for the next 5 years.  My math gives them 2 more years...

Hopefully, as flawed and vulnerable as Flash is, it will be dead and gone long before then.

Jed
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airtime

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 07:24:30 AM »
I recently did the opposite , I stop using Chrome on Linux and went full force with Firefox again. I was a huge fan of Firefox in the early 2000's but Firefox became a memory hog and was crashing my system like crazy. I drop Firefox and starting using chrome when Google release it to the public. At that time the concept was perfect for my needs. Each tab get their own process thread. nice . Considering I may have 10-15 tabs open at a given time. Over time each tab began to spike up the CPU usage and memory. After reading that Mozilla  was under new management . I decided to try the Beta Developers edition version 36 of Firefox. I must say that Firefox is definitely beating Chrome in the memory  department. 

It does suck that Netflix security requirements will not allow them to support other linux browsers besides Chrome. We have come a long way and seem to be making of head way since they agreed to support Ubuntu and Chrome. Right now if i want to watch Amazon Prime or Netflix I use my (cough cough) Windows 8 media server to watch them. For my day to day use I am using Vsido to connect to my other dev machines.

On another note, I recently change my main website from Flash to html. I spent a lot of time learning Flash and Adobe really killed that product. I am surprise they continue to sell the application .

hakerdefo

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 04:16:25 PM »
@jedi Great post! In my opinion, after all said & done, Firefox remains the best browser out there!
Cheers!!!
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VastOne

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 12:59:44 AM »
I agree, this was well thought out and written.. Thank you Jedi

It is an impossible position to be in trying to please the most with these sets of tools ... I think Firefox renders a page better than Chrome by a landslide

But Google Chrome is the only thing that can and does play everything necessary now...
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PackRat

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 01:00:59 AM »
As good a place for this as any.

Some of the developers of the original opera browser have started a new project - Vivaldi - new browser
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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 01:12:45 AM »
^ Running it now and I am VERY impressed so far...

Quiet, sleek, unique and a hell of a team backing it.  Runs Flash with zero issues and no discernible drain on resources

This definitely has potential...

Thanks for this one RatMan
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PackRat

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 01:29:34 AM »
No problemo.

Maybe I'll install it tomorrow and run it through some paces.

They are looking to add a mail client; don't know if it will be integrated or a separate app. I just skimmed their things-to-do list.

Good luck to them.

Edit - went ahead and installed it - they are off to a good start:



Direct Link
I am tired of talk that comes to nothing.
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VastOne

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 04:02:26 AM »
The unfortunate thing is Vivaldi is using Adobe Flash (libflashplayer.so) to render flash

It is no better than Iceweasel and nothing in site to be any different

It does handle flash better but still a dependency I want no part of
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hakerdefo

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2015, 04:29:19 PM »
Vivaldi looks interesting! I didn't know about this one! Thanks for the tip PackRat!
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ozitraveller

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 12:22:24 AM »
If you wait long enough, the solution finds you! ;)

Quote
YouTube has been working on ridding itself of Adobe's ancient Web plug-in for several years now, and while the whole site has been slowly transitioning away from Flash, today YouTube announced that it finally serves HTML5 video by default. Users of Chrome, IE 11, Safari 8, and "beta versions of Firefox" will all have a Flash-less experience.

http://www.itworld.com/article/2876371/youtube-dumps-flash-for-html5.html

VastOne

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 12:36:35 AM »
^ Thats great for YouTube...

The rest  of the world needs to get on board too and if it took them that long, how long will it take FB?  Or the hundreds of sites I visit every day that wants the original (and looks only for) the adobe flash version

Me thinks it will be another 5-10 years

Dafuq ever happen to standards?
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ozitraveller

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 04:19:25 AM »
Quote
hundreds of sites I visit every day

That's a LOT of sites!  ??? :o

I thought you golf 'd in you're spare time!!!

 ;)

VastOne

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 04:22:02 AM »
^ I do Ozi, but I am visiting family in a climate that is not conducive to golf this time of the year...

And yes, I was exaggerating a bit...
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Jmagick

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2015, 09:43:03 PM »

If you look at my screen-shot, you will notice that my adobe flash player is
current.
The following steps will show you how I did this.




1. If you don't already have, download and install either Google Chrome or
Chromium. Doesn't matter which one. We need the PPAPI (Pepper) Flash player.
Then run the program at least one time.

2. Next we need Rinat Ibragimov's wrapper.
To read more about it go to

https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin

WARNING: This IS alpha software! You use at you own risk! To date, I've had
minor issues which he seems to correct rapidly. Latest version seems very stable
with some DRM issues.

Go here to download... 32 and 64 versions are available.

http://main.mepis-deb.org/M12TestPackages.html

Look for - freshplayerplugin - 0.2.2+git20150114-1mcr120+1

Download the deb file you need.

3. Then using your favorite deb installer. I use Gdebi, there should be 2 other
files it will need to satisfy dependencies.

4. Now open your Mozilla browser and test your installation. I assume this works on most Mozilla
based browsers.


I've tested it on Firefox, Nightly, Iceweasel, and Icecat. I've seen no issues
with the current version.

Hope this helps somebody with Flash issues.

My 2 cents... I like IceCat.

ciao,
Jmagick

VastOne

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Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 10:15:12 PM »
^ Very very nice FlyBy post Jmagick!

I have successfully implemented it on my machines where I need it and it is working fine ... although this version of the player is double the cost in CPU and memory usage... how pathetic is this getting?

Thanks for this man!
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