Author Topic: problems installing  (Read 8027 times)

lwfitz

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2014, 02:39:19 AM »
Oh boy, thats what I figured...... I love you Jedi  :D

My guess is he said what I wanted too?

superwow

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2014, 11:09:47 PM »
@ew that confirms at least part of my install experience. When selecting Install (without swap) the installer would go through the steps of installing (although it would never boot). When selecting Install with Swap, nothing would happen.

So, what I wound up doing was use a tool from the Ubuntu peoples, which worked. I have a philosophical issue using Ubuntu tools though because 1) their CLA and licensing is contradictory to many FOSS principles and good old Debian, the community driven distro, 2) some of their corporate practices. (Interesting topic which is apparently being hammered out over on the systemd/upstart thread: my vote.... systemd ... I agree with all the upstart-detractors. For the record though, I am not a Canonical hater: they contribute a good deal, just, also tend to hijack and brainwash ...)

Are you are saying I could accomplish the install without using Boot-Repair, the Ubuntu tool? I can tell part of Boot-Repair is actually just bootinfoscript, but I just don't know the rest of the magic to get the install to work without using their tool. What's the remaining part?

jedi

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2014, 03:12:39 AM »
First of all superwow, very nice job getting it installed!  That is an achievment, no matter how you ended up doing so.  Kudos on a great job, and way to stick with it.  No wonder your IT dept. likes you so well!  After 30 years in the industry, I wish all my users had been just like you!

This was found in my notes from quite a while back.  (maybe a year?)
The choice basically boils down to this:
   
If using GRUB legacy as the bootloader, one must use MBR.
    To dual-boot with Windows (both 32-bit and 64-bit) using Legacy BIOS, one must use MBR.
    To dual-boot Windows 64-bit using UEFI instead of BIOS, one must use GPT.
    If none of the above apply, choose freely between GPT and MBR. Since GPT is more modern, it is recommended in this case.
    It is recommended to always use GPT for UEFI boot as some UEFI firmwares do not allow UEFI-MBR boot.  This is critical to take note of!

I believe this was something I found on the Arch-Wiki site...


@ew!  If you bothered to read any of the posts in their entirety, you would have observed the following;

Quote from: jedi

    snip;
    Also, before everyone jumps on my back and starts pummeling me, I know that Debian does indeed now have a working EFI installer.  VSIDO does not.  While I have done it, I believe it to be beyond the scope of these forums for me to tell you to "do it my way"!
    snip;
    By the way, in all the reading I've done and from personal experience, GPT is the best partitioning scheme  Linux will boot to a GPT partition, I've done it, however looking at your logs above, they clearly state that both /dev/sda and /dev/sdb are GPT disks, and not only that, but /dev/sda is housing an EFI boot area in the MBR.
    snip;
    Linux should have no problems dual booting with Windows, so this is indeed puzzling.
    snip;

After the user stated his aprx. knowledge level with Linux, I decided the best course of action was to do as I posted.  I stand by those posts.  This is not the first time you've "trolled" here, (ew) and as a Moderator on this site I will not tolerate any more of it!  It is absurd and not the place for it.  If you want to point out errors in a post, be courteous and PM whoever is making the error so it can be cleared up without trying to sound like your the "end all, be all" guru of Linux.  Your not!  None of us here claim to be...

Calling someone out as a liar,
Quote from: ew
    Not true. I have no issues installing VSIDO on gpt-disks.
helps no one and is insulting to the extreme.

As to Grub2 installing to an EFI partition, maybe so, maybe not, depending on your level of expertise and resolve.  Definitely not for the faint of heart, or the inexperienced user, which is why this statement was also in one of the above posts;

Quote from: jedi

    Ubuntu and Debian (Ubuntu is Debian based) both indeed have UEFI enabled installers.  However, these do not include Grub2.  They both use what is called 'grub-efi-amd64' (or 32 I assume for 32bit systems) to boot the system utilizing a FAT32 EFI partition just like Windows.  The grub-efi-amd64 has a "signing" feature which allows for the EFI boot process as well as even being able to take advantage of the "Secure Boot" feature.

Typically this EFI partition is "hidden" from the user, and even with the 'right' tools, can be difficult to work with.  For the record, I've never heard of Grub(2) even knowing what EFI is, much less booting a hidden FAT32 partition!  I'm no guru so I'll admit I'm not familiar with this.  For it to boot an EFI partition it has to be grub-efi-amd64.  That has always been my understanding, and until shown otherwise, I'd not tell someone differently.  Grub-pc and Grub-efi-amd64 are two different beasts all together.  Apples and Oranges.  As to installing "swap" to a GPT partitioned disk, never happen!  Period.  Indeed, Grub-Legacy will not even see a GPT partitioned drive.

Again, in the future should you decide to be so good as to help a user here, that would be great!  Don't come in  contradicting posts after they've been resolved.  As I said, if one of us makes a mistake trying to help someone, or our information is patently wrong, a simple PM to the user (the one trying to help) to help them correct their information, would be a kindness to the one giving their time to help someone troubleshoot an issue.  It is not our policy to try to purposefully hose someones computer.

Thank-you,
jedi
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VastOne

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2014, 03:22:57 AM »
Here is my take on this...

Several people involved with several means of resolving it and then documenting it...

So far it looks as if superwow, lwfitz, ew and jedi have all defeated uefi! 

This is what I want to see!
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lwfitz

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2014, 01:49:50 AM »
^ Thats what really matters!

I should also note that my post wasnt completely clear on some points that were clear in my head....... but apparently nobody can read my mind. I am quite clear that VSIDO, or Linux in general, will install on both MBR and GPT.
The point of my post was that if he wanted to dual boot Windows 7/VSIDO on that machine using legacy boot (NOT UEFI) and install with the VSIDO installer then my experience is that a format and change to MBR would be necessary.

That is strictly my experience with the three UEFI boards that I am currently installed on. Nothing more. And lets be 100% clear, I have no doubt that I will post something else in the future that and then Ill find out I was mistaken  :D



Now back on topic...... Maybe someone ( hint... hint... ew...) could take the time to creat a howto for setting up EFI boot..... just an idea  ;D

VastOne

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2014, 02:03:08 AM »
^ Most excellent idea!
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ew

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2014, 01:45:40 PM »
I think Jedi should be very careful "calling me out as a liar", just because he`s probably not been able to install Vsido to a gpt-disk himself.  I have done it, and it`s no problem at all. I did it the first time a long time ago by a workaround where I "fooled" the installer, and I`ve done it now, by fixing the installer, so that I don`t need to workaround it anymore. But, remember, I said to a gpt-disk, I didn`t say that I installed it to efi-boot. As there is no need to efi-boot just because there is a excisting efi-partition. A gpt-disk has the capability to bios-boot, and if Jedi isn`t aware of that, he should educate himself. EFI depends on GPT, but GPT doesn`t depend on EFI.

Superwow is confirming my claim that the non-swap installer completes the installation to a gpt-disk, but it wouldn`t boot for him. Well, that could be because he doesn`t have a bios-boot partition. This partition isn`t possible to create during the install, but I`ve got this partition from other installs that lets me create it. Read about the partition here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/132843/why-do-i-need-to-create-a-bios-grub-partition-when-i-install-12-04

As to why the swap-installer fails on the initial hdd-detection is as I said before, because fdisk doesn`t support gpt. The installer needs to use blkid instead. But simply replacing "fdisk -l" with "blkid" will give a uotput that leads to swap not being properly automounted in FSTAB. As the output will be "sda x:" instead of just "sda x" Therfore a little modifying of this line in the swap installer is needed:
Code: [Select]
#find the swap partition
TARGETSWAP=`fdisk -l | grep swap | awk '{print $1}' | cut -d "/" -f3`

should be changed to:

Code: [Select]
#find the swap partition
TARGETSWAP=`blkid | grep swap | awk '{print $1}' | cut -d ":" -f1 | cut -d "/" -f3`

Finally. I never lie. And I don`t appreciate Jedi "calling me out as a liar" or make outrageous claims about me throlling, just because I disagree with him. I`m 100% correct, and I have no issues installing VSIDO to a gpt-disk. Jedi is a little to full of himself, and that`s ok when he can back it up by knowledge or skills, but sorry to say that it`s not the case in this topic, and I guess that`s what bugs him. Someone knowing more about something than he does.

Here is another Debian-distro that installs on GPT. Both the swap and non-swap installer works fine with GPT. How I know? I`ve created and tested the ISO myself, and if I make it work right ootb and Jedi doesn`t, then he clearly has to do something wrong. Because I`m no linux-guru and if I can make it work, then anyone that`s at a medium skill-level should be able to do the same. It`s a Crunchbang/Sid-mod. 64-bit. Try it.
https://copy.com/CskeNfZiU74z
-ew
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VastOne

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2014, 01:51:26 PM »
^ Do you not know how to PM? I am disturbed by this need you have to attack jedi in superwow's thread (and every time you post here) it is pathetic

I am going to allow jedi to handle this and your special needs
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lwfitz

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2014, 05:47:48 PM »
Topic is now locked. VasyOne please feel free to override me but I don't see this moving forward in any way that might be helpful.

jedi

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Re: problems installing
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2014, 10:09:00 PM »
So much for civilized and tolerable forum behavior from this fella.  Pathetic is exactly right.  Trolling is obviously an enchanting past-time for this guy.  Nothing here that needs any further handling.
Another post of that nature and tone, and I think it is quite obvious what will happen.  A PM has been sent to him, and hopefully this kind of vitriol from this user can be avoided in public posting areas in the future.
Thanks guys...
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