Author Topic: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd  (Read 3795 times)

PackRat

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 06:31:01 PM »
Rockhopper -

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2016, 06:47:00 PM »
Quote
We have proven you can take systemd out and run but you cannot totally remove systemd as long as udev is still involved

That's true. systemd might be outboard but udev and loads of packages are built against it, so aside of udev, traces will remain. For systemd free loads of packages must be rebuilt and that's called something like... Devuan.  :D

Nevertheless, living in Debian without systemd (but with udev) is possible as antiX and the BBQ proves. My main ystem is a BBQ spin since my main HD went south. I also run a nice bunch BQQ spins in virtual machines and two antiX installs both metal and VM. No issues so far. systemd is not present in any of them.

Regarding the network names, I also run Void here. All its packages are built systemd free and has eudev instead of udev as default. There the network names are also systemd like using either dhcpcd or wicd (haven't tried networkManager but I guess it won't be different). udev leaves traces even for completely systemd free systems. I guess it won't be easy to revert back to the standards anymore as long as something *dev is onboard.

misko_2083

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 07:55:13 PM »
Quote
We have proven you can take systemd out and run but you cannot totally remove systemd as long as udev is still involved

That's true. systemd might be outboard but udev and loads of packages are built against it, so aside of udev, traces will remain. For systemd free loads of packages must be rebuilt and that's called something like... Devuan.  :D
Yep, removing the intruder (systemD) dependancies and rebuilding the packages is the only solution. :D
It's not only Devuan. I've been helping with some software for a certain distro lately. Also Debian Jessie based with OpenRC (no systemD). The 2 guys that rebuild packages have a lot of work. Rebuilding and testing is a job for at least 5-6 people but even more would be better.
They still managed to do a lot (ZFS support, openrc init, removed systemd dependencies, refind UEFI boot manager out-of-the-box). Cool distro but I have no idea when will they release the final. So far they released RC1 and unoficial uefi test build. http://sourceforge.net/p/refind/discussion/general/thread/a4c9422d/. I guess it will be ready when it's ready. :)

VastOne

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 08:32:23 PM »
This has turned into the discussion I hoped it would, for all of you contributing I appreciate it

I think I can now fix the issue with udev and the network naming conventions... It is a matter of applying a simple line to /etc/default/grub explained perfectly here.  I had tried this several times but had never applied it correctly in rebuilding the grub-install ... Once I tried it directly on the kernel line (editing the grub line from the grub menu) I saw it did in fact work

Right now I am busy extracting the vsido-start scripts from the ISO's and testing that we can use basic eth0 and wlan0 standards form a build of the ISO's all the way through an installation and boot up

Once done with that I will test again on the OpenRC builds and try to release some test ISO's for people to use

Thanks to all again... This is fun stuff and I am now really curious as to how Lennart may be feeling seeing so many different groups (Including redhat people) trying to extract systemd/udev
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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 11:36:13 PM »
Is this still necessary?

Quote
you must reboot your computer. Since sysv-rc is stateless, and OpenRC isn't, there's no way for OpenRC to know which of your daemons are running. So it is advised to shut them down manually one by one, then do the following to do a clean shutdown (umounting your partitions before the shutdown):

Code: [Select]
for file in /etc/rc0.d/K*; do s=`basename $(readlink "$file")` ; /etc/init.d/$s stop; done

the Debian wiki OpenRC page is old though updated last september. Following the steps here openrc seems to be working fine without running that oneliner... or maybe not.  :P

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2016, 11:49:57 PM »
Quote
I think I can now fix the issue with udev and the network naming conventions... It is a matter of applying a simple line to /etc/default/grub explained perfectly here.  I had tried this several times but had never applied it correctly in rebuilding the grub-install ... Once I tried it directly on the kernel line (editing the grub line from the grub menu) I saw it did in fact work

Great find. Thank you.

Quote
Once done with that I will test again on the OpenRC builds and try to release some test ISO's for people to use

Eager to test them. Already switched two Vsido installs. One fresh install from the last iso and my old install. Both seem to run fine. Will check them further tomorrow and play with services.

PS, with systemd away and replaced by sysvinit+openrc consolekit makes some sense again. With systemd onboard it's just an useless piece of code brought in by lightdm as a dependency, but fully replaced by systemd. It's sitting there with no purpose.

VastOne

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2016, 12:19:54 AM »
udev is a motherclucker and I now see why IgnorantGuru was so dead against it and systemd... it has claws that are deep...

I can now get the build to boot to livecd using the original eth0 and wlan0...

But the install reverts back to the udev shit... starting to really piss me off...

Will let you know the progress as soon as this headache dims a bit
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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2016, 05:38:32 AM »
Quote
udev is a motherclucker and I now see why IgnorantGuru was so dead against it and systemd... it has claws that are deep...

That's exactly my feeling from a while ago. Darn too invasive and stubborn. Nothing else is that way and so difficult to remove or replace. Not even the kernel. And you know, no kernel, no Linux.

We're all ears, VastOne. Get some pills, go for a ride and keep us updated one of these days..

VastOne

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2016, 08:02:32 PM »
Just got done with the standard VSIDO ISO's and they are uploading... Because of this discussion I was able to get back to what I wanted ... a bootable and installable ISO without the need for a startup ceni script.. that more than anything has pissed me off about udev/systemd, the change of a standard.. I get the reasons why security and all, but I do not like it... I cannot tell you all how much I value discussions and feedback just like this one, it motivates the hell out of me



I will have the OpenRC ISO's for testing done in 90 minutes or so... be patient just a wee bit longer
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VastOne

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2016, 10:34:38 PM »
First time using this so it may not work...

Mega Link for folder where ISO's are 

Code: [Select]
tYoXtArr3CV5ZQ1OLTJ0Rw
is the decryption key

backup site is the old VSIDO SourceForge page

These ISO's install and boot to OpenRC and the network works... other than that I have done zero testing NONE/NADA/ZILCH

You all can have that fun... :D
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misko_2083

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2016, 01:40:17 AM »
Downloaded iso and Just booted.

Kernel says:
Code: [Select]
dmesg  --level=err
[   39.334368] systemd-logind[2878]: Failed to enable subscription: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1
[   39.335944] systemd-logind[2878]: Failed to fully start up daemon: Input/output error
[   40.766772] systemd-logind[2998]: Failed to enable subscription: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1
[   40.768723] systemd-logind[2998]: Failed to fully start up daemon: Input/output error
udev is running
Code: [Select]
vsido@vsido:~$ ps aux | grep systemd
root       762  0.0  0.2  14208  4144 ?        Ss   00:34   0:01 /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon
OpenRC OK
Code: [Select]
vsido@vsido:~$ cat /proc/1/comm
init
Network is working showing eth0

PackRat

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2016, 01:47:21 AM »
Downloaded fine; haven't burned to usb/cd yest.

I recommend you put something like "OpenRC-beta" in the iso name to differentiate from the main iso files.
I am tired of talk that comes to nothing.
-- Chief Joseph

...the sun, the darkness, the winds are all listening to what we have to say.
-- Geronimo

VastOne

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2016, 01:50:54 AM »
These are just one offs as an exercise.. I seriously doubt they go much further...

I have them on separate download locations in clearly marked folders these should be the last ISO's unless I get a request... If I make more I will change naming schemes then

Thanks for the feedback
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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2016, 07:00:24 AM »
Thanks for all this and congrats, vastOne. We know you were struggling with the netkwork names for a long while.

Downloading.

Quote
these should be the last ISO's unless I get a request...

I guess you'll only have one or two.  :D 

Personally I'll keep my installs away from systemd as much as I can. But knowing that (for now) it's that easy to switch in Debian I don't see the need for two kind of Vsido releases. Anyway, I'm expecting that one of these days systemd will be totally unavoidable in Debian and surely many other distros. It's what the creators expect to accomplish with their baby.

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Re: How To: Convert VSIDO to OpenRC and remove systemd
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2016, 09:00:22 AM »
Installed and running. It seems smooth, but the refecta installer and me keep not being good friends. My login session name in lightdm is paco. That's the username I typed into the installer, but for some reason the username showing in the terminal and home folder is still vsido...  ??? Maybe it was me.... As usual with this installer I had to run dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration after booting to get the Spanish keyboard working. Not a big deal, anyhow. I didn't even attempted adding locales this time. just left en_US-UTF-8.  8)