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VSIDO Controls => VSIDO Discussions => Topic started by: jedi on January 14, 2015, 01:14:41 AM

Title: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: jedi on January 14, 2015, 01:14:41 AM
In regards to this thread > http://vsido.org/index.php?topic=917.0
I got to thinking...
Most of you know what that means.  Here comes the novel...

Linux, PPAPI, and the Browser...  (Originally posted at jedsdesk.com)

In the beginning, was Lynx.  And, it was good.  The time was 1992.  Linux was in it's infancy.  The Internet was becoming more easy to access.  Linux as we know it had reached a milestone.  It was now 1 year old.

I am going to cite some Linux history below to give perspective to why I wrote this article, and further explain my anger at Adobe and Microsoft.

The most popular web server has always been FLOSS since such data has been being collected. For example, Apache is the current #1 web server powering the Internet.  To my knowledge, it has never fell below this statistic.  Contrary to what Microsoft would have you believe, they have never held the number one position.  Ever.  Some current estimates put the number of Internet servers running Linux at or better than 95%.  Microsoft?  About 1%.  Ironically enough, Microsoft's own Azure Cloud services offer "Linux Infrastructure as a Service" (IaaS).

According to the The OSS/FLOSS Numbers Database (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1psy38ugzgzw2lGIeTTTGxES3R6M9xnrXAuI7G4AVDiE/edit#gid=0), Windows NT actually crippled a U.S. Navy Cruiser in 1998.  Almost all of Europe's governments use Linux in some form or fashion, or are in the process of converting existing systems including their educational institutions.  In the U.S. check out the statistics for banks, ATM machines, or mobile devices, or, for that matter, look at the U.S. governments most secretive 3 letter agencies and you'll find they too depend on Linux.  From the NSA, to the CIA, and the Department of Homeland Security.  It is not simply that Linux is free, and the government has run out of money (which they have as we all know seeing how we just passed $18,000,000,000,000 dollars in debt), it is because of the SECURITY.  It is unparalleled in OS history.

Perhaps one of the best papers written regarding OSS/FLOSS, can be found on David Wheeler's site at http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html.  A direct quote from his paper on the site says the following; "More recently, The U.S. Department of Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) has certified Linux distributor Red Hat’s Advanced Server operating system as a “Common Operating Environment” (COE), meaning the server product meets the agency’s software security and interoperability specification".

Lets jump ahead to Feb. 22, 2012.  Adobe announces it will no longer be providing updates to Flash for Linux.  The following month, in March, they released version 11.2, officially saying goodbye to Linux.  At the time, Flash was the most common video rendering software available to users on the Internet.  So, Adobe officially has crawled into bed with Microsoft.  While I am of the belief that Flash has outlived its usefulness, it is still widely used and even required to view some websites.  Facebook for example.

Today Adobe has accepted Google's PPAPI code-named "Pepper".  Chrome is the 'ONLY' browser available that can use the PPAPI.  Mozilla, and most other Linux compliant browsers only support NPAPI.  (the N in NPAPI stands for Netscape, the predecessor of Firefox and Iceweasel)  Mozilla has decided (right from the beginning, and stuck to their guns) that they will not work or develop PPAPI implementation for any Mozilla based browser.

It is well known and has been for a long time that the NPAPI has many security flaws and vulnerabilities.  It is an old API.  The problem here is licensing.  Mozilla is concerned by all of the proprietary code involved in the PPAPI, as well as the absolutely horrible documentation from Google.  Iceweasel uses the GNU/GPL licensing allowing it to be used in Linux distro's that firmly support OSS/FLOSS.  PPAPI will never (IMO) adhere to that license.  Firefox to a lesser degree also uses a type of this licensing that while it is not as open as that of Iceweasel, still allows it to be a part of the OSS project.

By stripping NPAPI support, browsers like Firefox and Iceweasel, not to mention numerous other OSS/FLOSS browsers no longer have the ability to serve up video that will now require the PPAPI.  While hopefully HTML5 and CSS3 will eventually solve this problem, for the foreseeable future, Linux users will be forced to use Google's browsers or simply not be able to watch video on the web.  I know that is a broad statement, and perhaps simplifying the situation to some degree, but in fact, an accurate one no less.  Yes, I know there are wrappers that you can use in place of the NPAPI, however, they are not a total fix.  While the 'Youtube All HTML5' plugin allows the user to watch Youtube videos, it is simply not a solution for other video sites on the Internet.  The same holds true with the 'Fresh Player Plugin' a wrapper that supposedly allows the user to take advantage of the PPAPI.  It is a sketchy solution that the last time I checked, was still in the 'Alpha' stage and barely worked on the sites I tried.

I do not have cable, satellite, nor even an antennae to watch television, I do have Netflix.  The various news outlet sites on the Internet provide me with all the news I care to hear about.  Netflix allows me to watch most popular TV shows.  My two kids have never complained about our situation, and personally I think we are better off as a family without television.  I believe the media's purpose is truly the "dumbing down of society".  Another article for another time.  That being said, I do enjoy watching the occasional show on Netflix.  As a Linux user, up until recently the only way I could do this was through a Virtual Machine installed on my Linux box.  Thanks to Google's Chrome browser this is now no longer the case.  Because of this, I have left Firefox and Iceweasel behind.  I have used Mozilla browsers since the early '90's, going all the way back to when it was Netscape.  I loved Mozilla.

I have tried Chromium, which has a more tolerable license than does Chrome, but still no Netflix support.  While I can freely choose to use Chrome, I loathe the fact that the decision is being made for me.  Google claims to utilize the OSS/FLOSS principles when it comes to their browser licensing, but it is a non-free piece of software.  This entirely rules Chrome out for a lot of the Linux community who adhere strongly to their principles when following the GNU/GPL OSS/FLOSS philosophy.  Alas, I am not so firmly entrenched in my philosophy that I wont use Chrome.  I enjoy video on the web, and have made the change to Chrome.  It is an entirely personal choice, and I am in no way endorsing Chrome.  Yes, I could continue to use a VM, but that is an even worse choice as I was forced to use one of those "other" OS's.

For Linux, and all it's non Google browsers, NPAPI is the past.  For me, this falls into the realm of "Unfair Business Practices/Monopoly" category.  The rest of the browser world should have, at the very least, been allowed the opportunity come up with a palatable solution to the PPAPI.  By not having that opportunity, the entire Linux community is being punished IMO by Google, and by default Adobe and Microsoft.  I believe it was an intentional move on all three companies parts to just that end.  Google has gone so far as to remove any NPAPI supported apps/plugins from the Google Play store.  I find this a remarkable move on the part of Google as their Android OS is a Linux distribution itself.  Of course, it comes with Chrome so for their part, this is all a non-issue.

For the rest of the Linux world, everyone should be raising their voice in anger at this type of practice.  Especially from Google!

 

Apple's iPads and iPhones have never supported Flash.  However Mac's Safari browser, like Microsoft's Internet Explorer, continue to receive updated Flash software from Adobe.  While Linux has been stuck at version 11.2, not so for MS and Apple.  Example below...  (taken directly from the Adobe Flash website)

Adobe Flash Player updates available for OS X on December 12, 2014

Adobe Flash Player updates address a recently identified Adobe Flash Player web plug-in vulnerability.

Huh!

Currently Microsoft and Apple are on version 16.0.0.257.  Adobe stated that security and bug updates would be provided for Linux version 11.2 of the Flash player in Feb. of 2012 for the next 5 years.  My math gives them 2 more years...

Hopefully, as flawed and vulnerable as Flash is, it will be dead and gone long before then.

Jed
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: airtime on January 15, 2015, 07:24:30 AM
I recently did the opposite , I stop using Chrome on Linux and went full force with Firefox again. I was a huge fan of Firefox in the early 2000's but Firefox became a memory hog and was crashing my system like crazy. I drop Firefox and starting using chrome when Google release it to the public. At that time the concept was perfect for my needs. Each tab get their own process thread. nice . Considering I may have 10-15 tabs open at a given time. Over time each tab began to spike up the CPU usage and memory. After reading that Mozilla  was under new management . I decided to try the Beta Developers edition version 36 of Firefox. I must say that Firefox is definitely beating Chrome in the memory  department. 

It does suck that Netflix security requirements will not allow them to support other linux browsers besides Chrome. We have come a long way and seem to be making of head way since they agreed to support Ubuntu and Chrome. Right now if i want to watch Amazon Prime or Netflix I use my (cough cough) Windows 8 media server to watch them. For my day to day use I am using Vsido to connect to my other dev machines.

On another note, I recently change my main website from Flash to html. I spent a lot of time learning Flash and Adobe really killed that product. I am surprise they continue to sell the application .
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: hakerdefo on January 18, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
@jedi Great post! In my opinion, after all said & done, Firefox remains the best browser out there!
Cheers!!!
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 19, 2015, 12:59:44 AM
I agree, this was well thought out and written.. Thank you Jedi

It is an impossible position to be in trying to please the most with these sets of tools ... I think Firefox renders a page better than Chrome by a landslide

But Google Chrome is the only thing that can and does play everything necessary now...
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on January 28, 2015, 01:00:59 AM
As good a place for this as any.

Some of the developers of the original opera browser have started a new project - Vivaldi - new browser (https://vivaldi.com/#Story)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 28, 2015, 01:12:45 AM
^ Running it now and I am VERY impressed so far...

Quiet, sleek, unique and a hell of a team backing it.  Runs Flash with zero issues and no discernible drain on resources

This definitely has potential...

Thanks for this one RatMan
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on January 28, 2015, 01:29:34 AM
No problemo.

Maybe I'll install it tomorrow and run it through some paces.

They are looking to add a mail client; don't know if it will be integrated or a separate app. I just skimmed their things-to-do list.

Good luck to them.

Edit - went ahead and installed it - they are off to a good start:

(http://s14.postimg.org/tgpigzoot/January_1422410028_1600x900.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/tgpigzoot/)

Direct Link (http://s14.postimg.org/u68atcp8h/January_1422410028_1600x900.jpg)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 28, 2015, 04:02:26 AM
The unfortunate thing is Vivaldi is using Adobe Flash (libflashplayer.so) to render flash

It is no better than Iceweasel and nothing in site to be any different

It does handle flash better but still a dependency I want no part of
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: hakerdefo on January 28, 2015, 04:29:19 PM
Vivaldi looks interesting! I didn't know about this one! Thanks for the tip PackRat!
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: ozitraveller on January 29, 2015, 12:22:24 AM
If you wait long enough, the solution finds you! ;)

Quote
YouTube has been working on ridding itself of Adobe's ancient Web plug-in for several years now, and while the whole site has been slowly transitioning away from Flash, today YouTube announced that it finally serves HTML5 video by default. Users of Chrome, IE 11, Safari 8, and "beta versions of Firefox" will all have a Flash-less experience.

http://www.itworld.com/article/2876371/youtube-dumps-flash-for-html5.html (http://www.itworld.com/article/2876371/youtube-dumps-flash-for-html5.html)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 29, 2015, 12:36:35 AM
^ Thats great for YouTube...

The rest  of the world needs to get on board too and if it took them that long, how long will it take FB?  Or the hundreds of sites I visit every day that wants the original (and looks only for) the adobe flash version

Me thinks it will be another 5-10 years

Dafuq ever happen to standards?
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: ozitraveller on January 29, 2015, 04:19:25 AM
Quote
hundreds of sites I visit every day

That's a LOT of sites!  ??? :o

I thought you golf 'd in you're spare time!!!

 ;)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 29, 2015, 04:22:02 AM
^ I do Ozi, but I am visiting family in a climate that is not conducive to golf this time of the year...

And yes, I was exaggerating a bit...
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Jmagick on February 01, 2015, 09:43:03 PM

If you look at my screen-shot, you will notice that my adobe flash player is
current.
The following steps will show you how I did this.

(http://en.zimagez.com/miniature/pepperscreenshot.png) (http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/pepperscreenshot.php)


1. If you don't already have, download and install either Google Chrome or
Chromium. Doesn't matter which one. We need the PPAPI (Pepper) Flash player.
Then run the program at least one time.

2. Next we need Rinat Ibragimov's wrapper.
To read more about it go to

https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin

WARNING: This IS alpha software! You use at you own risk! To date, I've had
minor issues which he seems to correct rapidly. Latest version seems very stable
with some DRM issues.

Go here to download... 32 and 64 versions are available.

http://main.mepis-deb.org/M12TestPackages.html

Look for - freshplayerplugin - 0.2.2+git20150114-1mcr120+1

Download the deb file you need.

3. Then using your favorite deb installer. I use Gdebi, there should be 2 other
files it will need to satisfy dependencies.

4. Now open your Mozilla browser and test your installation. I assume this works on most Mozilla
based browsers.


I've tested it on Firefox, Nightly, Iceweasel, and Icecat. I've seen no issues
with the current version.

Hope this helps somebody with Flash issues.

My 2 cents... I like IceCat.

ciao,
Jmagick
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on February 01, 2015, 10:15:12 PM
^ Very very nice FlyBy post Jmagick!

I have successfully implemented it on my machines where I need it and it is working fine ... although this version of the player is double the cost in CPU and memory usage... how pathetic is this getting?

Thanks for this man!
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 03, 2015, 05:21:42 AM
I installed the last iso into a virtual machine to check the new flash-less setup. I was expecting a different browser too, but Iceweasel is still in. Then I re-read the threads and finally noticed that the changes were in order to remove flash. Not the browser altogether yet. I'll give a go to the different browsers suggested here, at least some of them, but my former attempts always ended up returning to the Mozilla stuff. Never got used the the Chrome/ium thing. Though I never use most of the features that the fully bloated Mozilla browsers include I usually miss the security and the blocking addons in the other browsers. That's usually what makes the difference for me. I'll try them again, but I don't expect finding a good replacement for the current two main browsers.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: airtime on February 04, 2015, 06:27:43 AM
As good a place for this as any.

Some of the developers of the original opera browser have started a new project - Vivaldi - new browser (https://vivaldi.com/#Story)

Thanks for that. I am always willing to try a new browser and see if it fits the bill. I usually push the browsers to their limits with 15+ tabs open. lol
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 04, 2015, 08:49:42 AM
Quote
15+ tabs open

Same disease here.  ;D
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: airtime on February 04, 2015, 11:27:08 AM
lol @snap  ;D


so far so good. I installed Vivaldi and it seem very light weight . i will see how it hold up. One recommend i may send over to them is changing the name of the browser. Hard to remember how to spell it , let alone pronounce it .
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 04, 2015, 02:09:50 PM
Midori looks promising, I like it golbally, but it keeps failing in certain forums and other sites. Not an alternative for now. Though I'll keep an eye on it.

Vivaldi seems to be 64 bit only. My vsido install is 32 bit, so no deal... I'll try it on a another system anyhow.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on February 04, 2015, 05:55:52 PM
@snap - yes, looks to be 64-bit only; I have not asked if their source is available to build a 32-bit version since I only have 64-bit, might be worth a shot.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 04, 2015, 06:37:54 PM
Installed Vsido64 on a virtual machine. Will give it a go.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 04, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
I read in the Vivaldi forum that a 32 bit version is planned any time soon.

I am posting from Vivaldi right now. It is quite interesting. Switching back and forth from IW makes it look old fashioned.  :D

It seems to work better than Midori, at least here. I am not having any issues for now. It does not feel any faster than IW or FF, but has a lower resources impact, but not specially lower when you have a nice bunch of tabs open. Barely a difference. Very interesting browser anyway. Some sites like Dailymotion or Vimeo complain about flash not installed. I wonder why. AFAIK, Vimeo fully supports html5. it works that way in the Mozilla browsers.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 07, 2015, 10:41:32 AM
Is anyone using Midori displaying righ phpBB forums? It's the main isssue here. Otherwise I'm liking Midori quite a bit. Not for a full switch from Mozilla browsers but I would live with it... Nevertheless it's a no go if used for forums on that software.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: jedi on February 08, 2015, 09:43:15 AM
This thread has touched off some conversation thankfully.  However, that said, everything listed here so far would still require libflashplayer.so to enable flash sites.  Fresh Player Plugin was mentioned a couple of posts ago, and I also mentioned it in the OP of this thread.  It is not a viable solution at this time.  After extended use/uptime, cpu and memory use remain a valid concern.  As I originally posted, I am in no way endorsing Chrome, but at this time, it appears to be the only viable solution for enjoying fully functioning flash sites.  It also appears that they (Google) are keeping a pretty firm grip on the PPAPI.  As of this posting, Pepper, (PPAPI) is still the only real alternative to Mozilla's, and indeed, every other browsers flash abilities I've tried.

Adobe is not going to bend in this matter and suddenly decide to start making updates to flash for Linux.  It is just not going to happen.  Until Flash is dead and gone, this is going to be a recurring issue for Linux users.  Flash is IMO ready for the dustbin of software history.  Why it hasn't found its way there yet is beyond me.  HTML5 and CSS3 are good and viable solutions widely used now around the world.  It is approaching "delusional" status IMO that some are still pushing Flash.  It is a known nightmare of security flaws and bugs.

Unfortunately Pepper (PPAPI) is only available in Chrome.  PPAPI will not work for other browsers as there is no way to install a PPAPI plugin – they have to be installed by Chrome, and there is no way for third parties to do that at this time, and as far as I can tell, no plans for Google to make it possible.

If I am wrong in this conclusion, please don't hesitate to post here and shine some light on what for me has resulted only in darkness...
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 09, 2015, 11:51:20 AM
What you posted is simply true. The ugly part for those users, like me, who want to stay away from flash as much as possible and not having anything Google at all on their computers, it's a hard time. Chrome is the only realistic solution for full video support.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: seppalta on February 09, 2015, 10:58:28 PM
There is a mild compromise between chrome and not-chrome.  I now strictly use chrome-based Slimjet (http:////www.slimjet.com/en/dlpage.php) and Maxthon (http://www.maxthon.com).  They play everything and are lighter and faster than Chrome.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Digit on February 19, 2015, 06:29:26 AM
sorry, i heard of this "15+ tabs" being depicted as "pushing browsers to the limit", and had to come running.

maybe the "+" is just understatement... but... try adding a couple zeros to that number and you're closer to the realms of pushing to the limits.

1500 tabs.

i've been there.

i'm raaaaaarely on less than 200 tabs,
(currently somewhere over 500... everything running as smooth as if i only had one open).

if 15 tabs is pushing some kind of browser limit for you, then i suggest you start taking better care of your browser, getting better addons, using better means to block superfluous unwanted content, and maybe even a hardware upgrade (though i remember being happy with 100+ tabs back in 2003 with a machine from 1998... even on my ancientware pentium 133 with 16mb of ram, i wouldnt even question opening over 15 tabs).   many times i'd open 15+ tabs in the space of a minute, to aid research flow.

so seriously...  this sense that 15 tabs is a lot, makes me think something is seriously lacking in your setup.

i hope this comes across as encouragement to the promised land, rather than just self aggrandizing.  you too can have a happier fuller browsing experience.

PS,
"I loathe the fact that the decision is being made for me. " me too, and do whatever i can to refuse.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on February 23, 2015, 03:38:30 AM
^ the obvious question... what is it that would compel you to open 200, 500 or 1500 tabs in a browser?   ???

Since I shit canned flash I have not had to reboot this system at all... That is going on 3 weeks now and before I was rebooting daily due to runaway memory consumption

When I need to watch a video, I fire up Chrome ... otherwise I am happy with Iceweasel and all my plugins and NO FLASH

Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 23, 2015, 09:17:53 AM
This is the obvious "best" solution for those that Chrome/ium never floated their boats (me). Too bad that two huge browsers side by side are needed. One of them just to watch videos.

Side note: I keep liking Vivaldi more and more. IMHO, though still quite green, a nice alternative to the Chrome/ium thing apparently using pepperflash too. A 32-bit version is finally available. (http://winaero.com/blog/vivaldi-1-0-105-7-is-a-new-weekly-snapshot/) For me it doesn't replace Iceweasel/Firefox... yet(?) but already replaces the other pair.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on February 23, 2015, 12:56:40 PM
This is the obvious "best" solution for those that Chrome/ium never floated their boats (me). Too bad that two huge browsers side by side are needed. One of them just to watch videos.

As far as this goes, can't one user have iceweasel/firefox set up with multiple profiles? (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-and-remove-firefox-profiles) So anyone can have iceweasel non-flash for everyday use, and iceweasel with flash for videos.

Pretty sure I have seen that done for privacy issues - a mozilla profile that is set up for privacy or actually in a sandbox.

Edit - Confirmed.

1. Create a directory for your flash profile (optional)
2. Run iceweasel -P to create the profile, store the information in the directory created
3. Make sure the profile you want started by default is checked - default is to switch to new one
4. Run iceweasel -P <Name of Profile> to start iceweasel with the flash video profile
5. Create a plugins directory in the new iceweasel profile directory created in Step 1.
6. Install flash plugin to directory created in Step 5.

Should now have a flash-enabled iceweasel profile for watching videos; make menu entries, key bindings as needed.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 23, 2015, 06:21:23 PM
That sounds like a nice idea. Thanks, Packrat.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 25, 2015, 10:52:29 PM
Don't know if this one was mentioned before in the browser threads. I'm trying the DebianJoe's Roaster from the BBQ. (https://github.com/DebianJoe/roaster) (The topic is here). (http://linuxbbq.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=474)

It's lightweight, very simple, easily customizable and very fast. Don't know if it uses flash at all. it seems not. Or at least I see no hints of flash installed in my system. It plays videos in html5. wget and youtube-dl are integrated. It's less annoying and faster playing youtube html5 in HQ than in iceweasel. It really worths a try. Been checking a few site; Vimeo, etc... and for now no need for flash.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on February 25, 2015, 11:26:17 PM
You really have to register to read something there?  DAFUQ?

Wow...
 
I will take your word on it Snap... what is the browsers name?

Found it on the github site.. thanks Snap
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 26, 2015, 08:21:42 AM
Quote
You really have to register to read something there?  DAFUQ?

Ooops, Yes. Sorry. I didn't noticed that. The bbq works only if logged in.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 26, 2015, 08:25:33 AM
Html5 still plays much worse than flash (stutters, flickers and throttles... sadly). Or at least I've never managed to make it smooth in my systems. But at least this works more or less decently without the risky flash on sight.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 26, 2015, 08:47:42 AM
BTW, This (http://vsido.org/index.php?topic=757.msg8448#msg8448) seems to be a must for this naked browser.

Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on February 26, 2015, 11:41:26 AM
Been testing the hackerdefo's script vs adblock edge. It works quite fine but still some ads appear in certain ad heavy sites. adblock edge seems to block a bit more. It seems to work fine fot youtube which is what I was after mainly. Anyway in terrible sites like the gearslutz forums noscript is a must. I wonder if something like noscript would be added to roaster. I'm a total python noob...

Regarding flash. No need for it in many sites and roaster does a good job, but there are still flash only websites out there (sigh!). A cooking site (terrible BTW) I sometimes visit if I miss the daily recipe chapter on TV, doesn't work without flash.  :'(
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on January 26, 2016, 10:17:35 PM
New browser in the works -

Ad Blocking Browser - Brave (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/20/brave_adblocking_browser/)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 27, 2016, 01:21:08 AM
Looks good but doesn't this kind of kill it for us linux dweebs?


  (http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/screenshot2016-01-2619-19-59.php)
 (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot2016-01-2619-19-59.php)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on January 27, 2016, 02:22:53 AM
That's nice, what brought up that page, you request a dev build?

I went directly to their git page, there are build instructions for linux there.

I think the real deal killer is the:

Quote
utilize a user's browsing history to fit them into standard advertising segments – and then provide that segment information to websites and advertisers.

followed by -

Quote
Of course, to make that approach work, Brave would act as a gatekeeper and take a cut of the ad money, which is what would fund the company.

sounds like a pay-to-play scheme in the works for advertisers.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 27, 2016, 02:31:27 AM
^ Feck That Shites....

Not nearly enough to get me to chase that rabbit
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: hakerdefo on January 27, 2016, 01:50:48 PM
Browser is one of the most important part of any modern and usable distribution. And let's face it, there are not many browsers out there. Firefox & family, Chrome & family, Opera & family. That's it! Other browsers just suck one way or another, big times! Firefox (Iceweasel) is the best available option for us. Period.
Cheers!!!
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on January 27, 2016, 02:37:14 PM
^ I tend to agree but Iceweasel is such a damned resource hog most of the time... I get tired of my puter sounding like a freaking jet engine

 >:(
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: airtime on February 04, 2016, 06:07:58 AM
^ Feck That Shites....

Not nearly enough to get me to chase that rabbit

I am with you on this .
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: 0day on March 05, 2016, 06:52:49 PM
pale moon?
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on March 05, 2016, 07:28:58 PM
I've never used it. Install it and report back here.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: 0day on March 05, 2016, 08:18:00 PM
the long time use , it is firefox faster
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 05, 2016, 08:18:52 PM
Pale Moon is not bad. Fast as hell too.


(http://s29.postimg.org/hmlyvw2jn/Firefox_vs_Pale_Moon.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hmlyvw2jn/)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on March 05, 2016, 08:20:11 PM
How does it handle flash?
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 05, 2016, 09:06:53 PM
Perfectly, doing some crash testing atm, so far no issues :)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on March 05, 2016, 09:10:17 PM
But how does it handle it?  What is needed?
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 05, 2016, 10:01:09 PM
I just installed 'flashplugin' from official repo :)


using youtube.com/html5 I have h264 in red though. Not sure if it'll be a problem. Wont to be on any account :)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on March 06, 2016, 12:40:24 AM
Works fine with the pepper-flash plugin from the repos -

(http://en.zimagez.com/miniature/palemoontest.png) (http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/palemoontest.php)

however, the adblock extension doesn't seem to work.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 06, 2016, 11:54:25 AM
PackRat: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock (https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock) I use this one, and it gets the job done :)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: 0day on March 06, 2016, 09:19:47 PM
vivaldi? it is the default browser in weakerthan 6.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 06, 2016, 10:43:31 PM
Interesting browser for sure. A shame it's binary only though.


Gotta check out if it lives up to its name "A browser for our friends" :)


Nice find 0day :)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on March 07, 2016, 02:04:37 AM
PackRat: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock (https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock) I use this one, and it gets the job done :)

thanks; checking it out.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: hakerdefo on March 07, 2016, 09:59:39 AM
PackRat: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock (https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock) I use this one, and it gets the job done :)

thanks; checking it out.

Here is something that works across all browsers, system-wide, and is frugal on system resources compared to addons-extensions. Give it a try,

https://github.com/hakerdefo/pmiab

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 07, 2016, 05:04:38 PM
I appreciate the effort, but i do visit sites, where i have my blocker turned off to support them. :)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: dizzie on March 07, 2016, 05:07:51 PM
But there is always this : http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ (http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/)
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: hakerdefo on March 07, 2016, 06:06:53 PM
My script uses Dan Pollock's hosts file as one of it's sources.
Here is a nice advert blocking extension that sadly skips most peoples radars,

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bluhell-firewall/

Cheers!!!
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on March 08, 2016, 06:42:22 AM
Thanks for that, hackerdefo. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: zephyr on March 12, 2016, 10:12:54 AM
^ Ran a d-u little after midnight, browser failed. Changed iceweasel to firefox in menu, and it now works. 

Read a couple weeks back in DW that Debian might be switching back to FireFox, I would guess with sid first. My stable and testing installs are not affected.
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160222 (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160222)

@ hakerdefo: Thanks for the link to bluhell, simple and it works!

Z
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: VastOne on March 12, 2016, 03:51:17 PM
Good to see Mozilla and Debian resolve this (finally)...

Interesting thing, all the settings I 'wanted' to work in Iceweasel never would recently ... things like font sizes and remembering zoom levels on pages failed

In firefox they are working as they should AND it seems to run in a lot less memory... I am not sure how this is so but it is
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on March 14, 2016, 07:40:04 AM
^ Yup. they say it's all the same code except the branding, but they behave differently.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on March 14, 2016, 09:25:27 AM
Just did the change. Removed Iceweasel aurora, deleted the line sources list and Firefox came in. You are right. Font sizes behave now.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on March 14, 2016, 06:52:40 PM
It also feels faster... weird. Anyway Iceweasel is the past. Firefox lives in the Debian repos now.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: jenom on April 13, 2016, 05:20:04 PM
I have downloaded and installed Pale Moon following link to Linux on their website
only a 22.8 Mb download
Added the Deb 8 repos , and just did apt-get install palemoon
plays youtube videos and secure enough to log into a bank website and pay my bills
runs fast and menus looks like as the older firefox menus
so my vote goes to  PaleMoon
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: zephyr on June 06, 2016, 01:30:39 AM
^ thanks jenom!

Have been aware of Pale Moon for a while, decided to give it a shot!

Installed Pale Moon and impressed with it so far, uses flash and you-tube works just fine.

https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home%3Astevenpusser&package=palemoon (https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home%3Astevenpusser&package=palemoon)

Used wget for install and didn't notice the Debian installer package at bottom of page, hidden past scroll. Going to test this for a while and see how it works out.

Greetings to everyone! : )

Z
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: Snap on June 06, 2016, 06:03:28 AM
Been using it exclusively (well, qutebrowser tests aside) for a month or so. I miss nothing from Firefox/Iceweasel. It feels like an old FF, but it gives you all you need without the "fancy stuff" Mozilla added in newer versions. I don't use flash, whatsoever. But I have no need for it.

Regarding the source I've got it directly from their servers instead. Updates are not as frequent as the Mozilla ones. Manual updating is not a mess.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on August 16, 2017, 05:22:34 PM
Re-visiting Brave browser -

pretty smooth these days, and it looks like they've made some changes as far as revenue goes -

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/coindesk-and-brave-software-partner-on-new-content-revenue-model-with-private-micropayments-and-focus-on-user-privacy-300377307.html
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on August 17, 2017, 02:29:38 PM
Is icecat in the debian repos (eldest is on the vsido/win7 machine right now)?

In paranoid mode today and went to this site today (https://parazyd.cf/musings/bffnff.html) which is linked in the "secure firefox" thread on the Void forum. I'll check it out later when the Void repos are back online, maybe IceCat (https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/) is more in tune with VSIDO philosophy?

The other articles in the "musings" section are a good read, the systemd rant is epic.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: PackRat on August 17, 2017, 06:58:01 PM
Waterfox project (https://www.waterfoxproject.org/)

Pretty smooth browser.

IceCat was way too slow and cranked up the cpu usage.
Title: Re: I'm thinking Iceweasel replacement
Post by: jedi on August 20, 2017, 08:01:37 AM
Wow, icecat on arch isn't so bad. 4 tabs open plus the e-book reader program that runs with calibre, less than 800Mb's. Oh and spacefm with 6 tabs open. Have to check out how it runs on my VSIDO install...